Fees Please

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Does it bug anyone else when you have to use a PayPal fee calculator to work out how much someone actually wants for their goods? Especially when they can apparently add in the postage and packing without their brain imploding.

Total cost = price you actually want for the goods + postage + the 20 seconds of your time to click on a link, type some digits and read the result (or the PayPal fees as it is otherwise known) all rounded up or down as desired for convenience.
 
I think it's code for “pay me friends and family”, which isn't allowed to be listed on this forum.

I sometimes pay people F&F, but wouldn't expect it or try enforce it myself for a sale. If I have to pay the 3.5% or whatever it is, it's not the end of the world, as selling on forums is generally free.


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It is against PayPal policies to pass on 'selling fees' I believe, as far as I am aware these are supposed to be absorbed by the seller.
 
Vendors pass on fees all the time, they don't sell for what they buy for wholesale do they? Also most sellers are already losing out as people want things for nothing. Why suffer losing more money to Paypal. It's the buyer that benefits from no fee's that is why I prefer to sell on the 'other' forum when ever possible as they allow F&F.
 
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Passing on PayPal fees as a direct surcharge could potentially be illegal now:

From Saturday 13 January all surcharges for paying via credit or debit card will be banned this includes payment methods linked to your card, such as PayPal or Apple Pay. Companies are still allowed to levy a surcharge if you opt to pay by cash or cheque.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/cards/2018/01/cards-fees-to-be-banned-from-saturday

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Vendors pass on fees all the time, they don't sell for what they buy for wholesale do they? Also most sellers are already losing out as people want things for nothing. Why suffer losing more money to Paypal. It's the buyer that benefits from no fee's that is why I prefer to sell on the 'other' forum when ever possible as they allow F&F.

Vendors are a totally different scenario. They have a margin which covers variable costs and contributes toward fixed costs and ultimately profit.

I tend to live and let live with fees and leave it up to the buyer.

BST prices do actually seem to be depressed to a degree at the moment, possibly due to so many new items coming to market. However as a general point, there are some sellers who expect unreasonably to defy the laws of market economics.

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The problem with F&F payments is that the buyer has absolutely NO protection. Decide not to send your item and just keep the cash? No problem as far as Paypal's concerned, the money was gifted to you.

Essentially you're gifting a total stranger a sometimes not inconsiderable sum and taking their word that you'll receive what you're expecting, with no form of redress if you don't.
 
I had made a comment similar to this recently and genuinely believe the guys i spoke to had good points to make themselves. I think really there are two different complaints here

1. That people are effectively asking for friends and family payments as a default
2. That TSR doesn't allow F&F payments but allows people to suggest it.

For the more anal among us (unfortunately myself included) some of us can't understand why the default amount people ask for isnt the cost including PayPal fees as really we should all be paying them for every transaction.

However as Wayne pointed out above, it is automatically slightly cheaper for buyer to add them if they want to (before considering any offers etc). No one is going to work out how much they want including fees, then take them off for you automatically once you've offered to buy for their stated price.

As for point no.2, it's not our job to police this. If TSR allow this practice then you might just have to work out your own fees... o_O
 
Yes! Leaving aside the fact that PayPal is meant to be free for buyers if you must pass your fees on, which is technically against their terms of service, at least have the good grace to list the total price.

Passing fees on isn't against their terms of service - charging someone more (a surcharge) for using PayPal, compared to other forms of payment, is.

If you want to ask enough to cover the fees you have to pay you are allowed to, but someone paying by bank transfer or cash shouldn't pay less. How you would enforce that with a second hand goods marketplace I don't know.
 
When buying, If I know the seller I'll just send it F&F but will send it as a payment otherwise. When selling, I always try to provide the buyer with the choice by providing them with the fee amount... How they then pay is up to them but 9/10 prefer not to pay the fee.

As for adding the PayPal fee to the asking price, perhaps that should be the way its done for ultimate protection but its hard enough selling stuff on here as it is without an additional 5% to the price... Fact is, its highly likely that for an item to sell the seller would have to absorb that into their asking price taking the hit themselves. I say this as someone who's probably used the BST more than most... Embarrassingly :oops::D
 
Agreed. Everyone likes a bargain but as you say selling is hard enough as it is without adding onto an already low price. If a seller has been around for a while and has a decent reputation then F&F is the way I'll pay, if its a newbie then I will protect myself and pay the fee's, ultimately it's a chance we all take and it's down to the individual. Personally I find Royal Mail more of a challenge than PP. At least you get your money with PP. Normally it's the mail carrier losing the item that causes the dispute. These days I will give the buyer the choice of budget or tracked post they make their choice but I always advise I will take no responsibility if they take the budget route which I think is fair providing I post the picture of the proof of post.
 
Agreed. Everyone likes a bargain but as you say selling is hard enough as it is without adding onto an already low price. If a seller has been around for a while and has a decent reputation then F&F is the way I'll pay, if its a newbie then I will protect myself and pay the fee's, ultimately it's a chance we all take and it's down to the individual. Personally I find Royal Mail more of a challenge than PP. At least you get your money with PP. Normally it's the mail carrier losing the item that causes the dispute. These days I will give the buyer the choice of budget or tracked post they make their choice but I always advise I will take no responsibility if they take the budget route which I think is fair providing I post the picture of the proof of post.

That's exactly the kind of thing that we have to remember - we are dealing with people and often giving them choice is the best option!

Many of the members here would be perfectly happy to buy on honour from someone they speak to often, and sometimes have bought from before. I do the same as @Rohleder - if I have not dealt with a seller before I will make sure my offer includes PayPal fees as I would like the buyer protection.
 
Passing fees on isn't against their terms of service - charging someone more (a surcharge) for using PayPal, compared to other forms of payment, is.

True, I should have worded my post more carefully. I have seen it before though when people have done exactly that.

TBH I don't really have a problem if someone inflates their price by 3% or whatever it is, it's generally a small amount to pay for the protection, where I have a problem is when the seller wants the additional but can't be arsed to work out how much that is and expects the buyer to do it for them. They seem to manage to work out the postage cost OK.
 
True, I should have worded my post more carefully. I have seen it before though when people have done exactly that.

TBH I don't really have a problem if someone inflates their price by 3% or whatever it is, it's generally a small amount to pay for the protection, where I have a problem is when the seller wants the additional but can't be arsed to work out how much that is and expects the buyer to do it for them. They seem to manage to work out the postage cost OK.

Haha I know mate! I'm with you on that front - I'm probably gonna use PayPal so it's easier for me if they've worked it out for me haha
 
I wouldn't ever not pay the fees for anything I'm buying online via PayPal, whomsoever it is at the other end. I have always included the miniscule amount in the price, usually to my detriment. I must admit it never occurred to me that people were using it as a way of circumventing the TSR rules and were therefore proving themselves dishonest rather than merely idle.

Now I do know I will not purchase from people who do that ever again. If they are willing to be dishonest over pence...
 
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