Bowl lathering - excess lather

soapalchemist said:
Unfortunately for some ;) once again Henk and I must disagree; some soaps will give a lot of lather but still not have the lubricating and 'slip' qualities of a soap that might have less lather - IMHO.

True, but it is also true that to make a good soap perform, you need to bring it to a stage where, if you lather in a bowl, you cannot but end up with a large amount of lather -- I'm not saying that the profuse lathering is a prerequisite of a good shaving soap, but that it is a byproduct of making a good shaving lather in a specific way, viz. in a bowl. As said, making lather ON the cake will produce a thicker, creamier lather rather than a 'mountain' of lather.

There are different ways of creating a good, creamy, stable, non-drying lather that will correctly prep the hairs for shaving, which is the ultimate purpose. Some of these methods will create the proverbial 'mountain of lather' while others will not.

Requirements also vary with shaving technique and experience. An experienced barber works much faster than an average home-shaver, and therefore needs less lather, and can do with a lather that dries quicker on the face, because he doesn't require a long-lasting lather.

So again, we don't seem to really disagree...

Henk
 
rangers62 said:
If above is correct, wouldn't shavers be better served with a shaving oil :shock: Heresy I know! whatcha think?

Nope, because the function of a shaving soap is still multiple; not only must it provide slip to the razor, it should also (and foremost) prep the hairs for cutting (dissolving skin grease from the hairs, so water (usually the water in the lather) can enter the hairs and soften them, erecting the hairs to present them to the razor).

All of my cosmetics formulary handbooks (and I have quite a few by now ;-) ) will tell you that use of a shaving oil, which only provides slip, should always be preceded by a separate step in which the hairs are degreased and wetted, such as washing the beard with soap and water. Some handbooks even explicitly state that it is better to use a shaving soap (or cream or aerosol (which BTW is usually just a soap and loads of water...) with enough lubricity rather than doing separate wash and lube steps...

Henk
 
Henk, unlike shaving oil is there any credence to using hair conditioner as a pre shave or does that just coat the hair rather than actually soften it?
 
antdad said:
Henk, unlike shaving oil is there any credence to using hair conditioner as a pre shave or does that just coat the hair rather than actually soften it?

It may soften it, but certainly not by making it soak up water. Hair conditioners contain chemicals that adhere to and/or bind with (chemically that is) with hair. Whether or not that would improve the shaveability of the hair I have no idea.

This is what Wolfram, in Paye, Barel and Maibach, Handbook of Cosmetic Science and Technology, has to say about conditioners in general:
Two general forms of conditioners are currently in use: (1) hair rinses and (2) leave-in products, often referred to as ‘‘deep’’ conditioners. Both are applied to freshly shampooed hair. True to their name, the rinse product is rinsed off after a few minutes, whereas the leave-in product is left on the hair for up to 30 minutes, after which it is rinsed off. The purpose of the longer time is to allow the product to penetrate further (thus the name ‘‘deep’’) into the hair shaft thereby extending the conditioning effects.

The active ingredients in most conditioners are based on quaternary ammonium salts (cationic surfactants) such as steartrimonium chloride and, cetrimonium chloride, and the like. Because of their great affinity for hair, these compounds bind strongly to the cuticles, providing a low-friction surface, thus making the cuticles slick and less prone to abrasion. Other components present in the conditioning for- mulations, such as fatty amines, fatty alcohols, and amine oxides, supplement the action of cationic surfactants, adding primarily to the tactile benefits. The leave-in conditioners that are recommended for use on damaged hair frequently contain protein and lanolin derivatives.

Sounds to me as if a conditioner wouldn't improve the shaveability of hair, but this is just conjecture on my side, I could be totally wrong.

Henk
 
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