TOBS Sandalwood Reformulation?

[pjgh]

Hi folks! I've been obsessed of late with British triple-milled soaps (no kidding - see: https://www.theshavingroom.co.uk/community/threads/bluffers-guide-to-british-triple-milled.59374) and was struggling to find accurate information on the TOBS soaps, so reached out to them for some ingredient lists. TOBS have replied, but their answer surprised me ...

For their Sandalwood, they listed the ingredients as: Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Laurate, Sodium Laurate, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Palm Kernel Acid, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate, Linalool, Coumarin, Geraniol, Eugenol, Limonene, Cinnamal, Citronellol, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

Okay, you're thinking ... so what? Well, every picture I can find of current batch has this as the ingredient list: Potassium Palmate, Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Aqua (Water), Parfum (Fragrance), Palm Kernel Fatty Acid, Sodium Chloride, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Linalool, Coumarin, Geraniol, Limolene, Cinnamal, Citronellol, Benzyl Benzoate, Butylphenol Methylpropional, Citral, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide) ... which @NeilJ confirmed with a picture of his own purchased little over a year ago.

What I find curious is that the ingredient list that TOBS sent me bears practically no resemblance to any other ingredient list that I have assembled ... and I have assembled an extensive list! Two things stand out: first, steatate rather than somewhat ubiquitous palmate (although it is not a palm-free formulation) and second, use of laurate which appears to be something new (googling, I find that it is the a derived from coconut fatty acid). Hold that thought.

More googling and I find that Muhle have what appears to be a similar formulation for their Grapefruit & Mint (Aloe Vera & Sea Buckthorn are still showing as the older Palmate formulation) and is it coincidence that they are sold out of a good number of their soaps. Edwin Jagger also now appear to be listing this kind of formulation for their Sandalwood . This, I find interesting because I gleaned a quite different formulation from these respective websites actually quite recently while researching British soaps for the above thread. Likewise, I find a similar formulation for the new veg Tabac.

Tabac
Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Laurate, Sodium Laurate, Glycerin, Aqua, Parfum, Lauric Acid, Limonene, Linalool, Hydroxycitronellal, CI 77891, Isoeugenol, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Citronellol, Coumarin, Benzyl Alcohol, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Geraniol, Benzyl Salicylate, Cinnamyl Alcohol, Citral, Eugenol

Edwin Jagger Sandalwood
Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Laurate, Sodium Laurate, Glycerin, Aqua (Water), Parfum (Fragrance), Capryl/Capramidopropyl Betaine, Lauric Acid, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Limonene

Edwin Jagger Limes & Pomegranate
Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Laurate, Sodium Laurate, Glycerin, Aqua (Water), Parfum (Fragrance), Capryl/Capramidopropyl Betaine, Lauric Acid, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Limonene, Linalool, Citral, Coumarin, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

Edwin Jagger Aloe Vera
Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Laurate, Sodium Laurate, Glycerin, Aqua (Water), Parfum (Fragrance), Capryl/Capramidopropyl Betaine, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice (Aloe Vera Gel), Lauric Acid, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Citric Acid, Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate

Muhle Grapefruit & Mint
Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Glycerin, Aqua (Water), Potassium Laurate, Sodium Laurate, Parfum (Fragrance), Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Lauric Acid, Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Linalool, Limonene, Sodium Benzoate

... I guess Aloe Vera & Sea Buckthorn will follow suit, particularly as Edwin Jagger have an Aloe Vera.

While researching for the British triple-milled post, I thought I spotted some connection between TOBS and Edwin Jagger but dismissed it and then this reply from TOBS threw a full on spanner at that notion ... but now looking at Edwin Jagger and seeing their updates, I think I can confirm that they use the same supplier. That's an aside.

Are we on the cusp of a formulation change in the British triple-milled arena?

Has anyone bought a recent TOBS Sandalwood (like in the last month, maybe) and can confirm the ingredient list? They don't actually state on their website, while Edwin Jagger and Muhle do, so we can see the change happening. I wonder if T&H will follow suit as they reformulated only a short number of years ago and MWF have only just moved over to that formulation. Trumpers? Please, please, please do ... assuming this new formulation is good! Floris? Might DR Harris switch away from tallow?

 

[pjgh]

... and over at Speick: Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Laurate, Sodium Laurate, Glycerin, Aqua (Water), Parfum (Fragrance), Valeriana Celtica (Speick) Extract, Lavandula Angustifolia (Lavender) Herb Oil, Lauric Acid, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Linalool, Limonene, Eugenol, CI 15850 (Pigment Red 57)

Googling "Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Laurate, Sodium Laurate, Glycerin, Aqua (Water), Parfum (Fragrance)" only returns Edwin Jagger & Speick.

 

[Mike Smart]

All very interesting mate.
I have a few trumper soaps still in the box i’ll need to look them out.
i know out of them all i only really like Oxford Blue & Officer & Gentlemen which we all know are different.

 

[Sabre]

I would imagine that Edwin Jagger is made in Germany or a country that supplies Germany such as Poland, Czechia or Slovakia.

 

[pjgh]

My hope is that Trumpers will ditch the crap formulation (presumably Soapworks) and move to something that produces lather ... just like the rest of the gang did. With what appears to be a completely new formulation starting to appear, it's doubtful that those who reformulated recently will adopt it, but you never know ... there's hope for Trumpers.

 

[pjgh]

I would imagine that Edwin Jagger is made in Germany or a country that supplies Germany such as Poland, Czechia or Slovakia.

Yes, they do seem to be adherent to Muhle particularly. Their previous formulation was also shared by Carthusia. What I'm seeing in this new formulation is something that appears to have begun with Tabac's veg reformulation. Certainly seeing very similar appear for Speick, I'd very much agree with you. I reckon we'll see a De Vergulde Hand reformulation soon ... and possibly LEA.

That this new formulation has been adopted by TOBS is interesting ... chipping into the London Cartel?

 

[pjgh]

TLDR? It's the move from Palmate to Stearate as first ingredient and the novel use of Potassium Laurate and Sodium Laurate that is particularly noteworthy here, making the DNA of this formulation quite easy to track.

Heck! Have I become a soap genealogist?

 

[Sabre]

TLDR? It's the move from Palmate to Stearate as first ingredient and the novel use of Potassium Laurate and Sodium Laurate that is particularly noteworthy here, making the DNA of this formulation quite easy to track.

Heck! Have I become a soap genealogist?

I wonder whether it's this soap base? Sadly they don't list their ingredients...

 

[De 2]

It is not that long ago when I rode everywhere on a Ducati, had a black leather jacket, jeans and brown leather boots, hair on my shoulders and out with a different girl every night. The big decision of the day was Wayfarers or Prada sunglasses.

Now I spend my time reading about shaving soap ingredients.

WTF happened?

 

[pjgh]

It is not that long ago when I rode everywhere on a Ducati, had a black leather jacket, jeans and brown leather boots, hair on my shoulders and out with a different girl every night. The big decision of the day was Wayfarers or Prada sunglasses.

Now I spend my time reading about shaving soap ingredients.

WTF happened?

Hey! It's the new Rock & Roll!