Thoughts on Aggressiveness

It seems to me:
1. Blade gap does matter. That's the whole point of an adjustable razor - it adjusts the blade gap. However, as said, there are plenty of other factors at play here as well.
2. The idea that everything is technique may be theoretically true but it may not help in practise. Shavers just don't have perfect techniques. And even shavers with good techniques make mistakes, because skin isn't flat and it has various blemishes depending on the person and the day. There was a reason for the introduction of the "safety" razor - to keep people safe.

I really don't think shaving is a process that responds to absolutes. There are a large number of variables and you juggle them to get the best result you can. And even then, as said, you make mistakes.

Well stated. We are imperfect people with imperfect tools trying to shave imperfect faces. However, one can compensate for that by using a razor that is not so aggressive as to harm one's face within its (and our) margin of error. ;)
 
The first two paragraphs here make a lot of sense. Growth of technique makes the difference, and yes, it is worth trying different razors to discover your preferences. I have about 10 and 3 straights atm.

Then it descends into the same phrases we hear all the time...

"The shave from an aggressive razor lasts longer" (Untrue - how is this possible?)

Some aren't comfortable because they cause nicks" (How would they do that? Unless you're using them badly)

"I'll keep some milder razors for a change (but they don't shave as well)"

This is all wrong. This is all about technique. Notice that the Dart (said to be pretty aggressive) gives mystery nicks - in other words my technique with it is poor and it punishes me for it. Raise the handle, keep the blade flat, and it should shave well. If you can do it with no guard with a straight you can do it with a blade in a handle.

And then in the last paragraph it's back to mentioning enjoyment. Now, that really does change razor to razor
Thanks for the approval of my first two paragraphs. I was dying for your endorsement.

As I descended into my own personal experience with my very own face, I apologize for reporting my personal experience with the way my face feels. To me. Personally.

I also apologize for reporting commentary from my wife. Sorry it offended your shaving sensibilities.

Also, I am terribly sorry you absolutely found it necessary to comment on my future den reduction. It must be so irritating that some people find their preferences, and then let go of the razors they don't reach for anymore.

As an aside, my distaste for the three razors above is personal to me. Can I get a flawless shave from all 3, taking a more cautious approach? Yes. And I have. Is that using my preferred technique? Nope.

The Dart is the perfect example. It shaves unlike anything else I experienced. This caused several below average shaves to begin with. And I did have many nicks. After maintaining steep angle discipline, utilizing sharper blades (Nacet and Feather), and using a more cushioned soap, I got a few excellent shaves. Ultimately, I sent it back because I didn't enjoy the shave experience with it.

But this isn't your point. You want to deeply analyze my post, and lecture me on how I should post. For what? So I can be just like you? No thanks.

And not that it matters, but I'm pretty sure I said "I", "my", and "YMMV", so again, what was the point of your "breakdown" of my post? To be negative, without adding much?

Mission accomplished.

One thing we agree on is that enjoyment is different from razor to razor.

Happy shaves "about 10 and 3 straights", and happy shaves to everyone else too.
 
Thanks for the approval of my first two paragraphs. I was dying for your endorsement.

As I descended into my own personal experience with my very own face, I apologize for reporting my personal experience with the way my face feels. To me. Personally.

I also apologize for reporting commentary from my wife. Sorry it offended your shaving sensibilities.

Also, I am terribly sorry you absolutely found it necessary to comment on my future den reduction. It must be so irritating that some people find their preferences, and then let go of the razors they don't reach for anymore.

As an aside, my distaste for the three razors above is personal to me. Can I get a flawless shave from all 3, taking a more cautious approach? Yes. And I have. Is that using my preferred technique? Nope.

The Dart is the perfect example. It shaves unlike anything else I experienced. This caused several below average shaves to begin with. And I did have many nicks. After maintaining steep angle discipline, utilizing sharper blades (Nacet and Feather), and using a more cushioned soap, I got a few excellent shaves. Ultimately, I sent it back because I didn't enjoy the shave experience with it.

But this isn't your point. You want to deeply analyze my post, and lecture me on how I should post. For what? So I can be just like you? No thanks.

And not that it matters, but I'm pretty sure I said "I", "my", and "YMMV", so again, what was the point of your "breakdown" of my post? To be negative, without adding much?

Mission accomplished.

One thing we agree on is that enjoyment is different from razor to razor.

Happy shaves "about 10 and 3 straights", and happy shaves to everyone else too.
Haha that is the saltiest post ive read in a while. Good work.

The point was not to offend. You can post however you want, but the things I had mentioned in previous posts in the thread were exemplified by your post.

The point is that you may be able to find a new favourite. A razor you had discounted because you believed it to give a worse shave than others. With a bit of practice.
 
As an aside, my distaste for the three razors above is personal to me. Can I get a flawless shave from all 3, taking a more cautious approach? Yes. And I have. Is that using my preferred technique? Nope.
And just to be clear, this isn't what you said. You said it gives mystery nicks. But in this post you claim it doesn't anymore because your technique improved. In my opinion, YMMV as you say, I'd rather people said that than blame the razor for poor shaves.
 
Polarising discussion.

If shave using plate 2 on the Rockwell I have nice pleasant shaves, but if I go to plate 3 I have a lot of irritation, more likelihood of nicks, and definite extra burn on my skin.

From what I've read here, this is my technique which needs improving... Am I right? Has plate 2 given me bad habits?
 
Polarising discussion.

If shave using plate 2 on the Rockwell I have nice pleasant shaves, but if I go to plate 3 I have a lot of irritation, more likelihood of nicks, and definite extra burn on my skin.

From what I've read here, this is my technique which needs improving... Am I right? Has plate 2 given me bad habits?
You're right. Very polarizing at times, but the answer is ... probably.

The 2nd plate may not allow you to feel the blade at times that your technique falters. It's effective range is smaller so it makes it more difficult to nick/irritate.

Once it's opened up a bit, these negative side effects become more likely and more care may be needed.
 
Polarising discussion.

If shave using plate 2 on the Rockwell I have nice pleasant shaves, but if I go to plate 3 I have a lot of irritation, more likelihood of nicks, and definite extra burn on my skin.

From what I've read here, this is my technique which needs improving... Am I right? Has plate 2 given me bad habits?

It is diminishing returns though, yes with practice you could master plate 3, but once the hair's gone it's gone and if you can do that with plate 2 why bother?
 
And just to be clear, this isn't what you said. You said it gives mystery nicks. But in this post you claim it doesn't anymore because your technique improved. In my opinion, YMMV as you say, I'd rather people said that than blame the razor for poor shaves.
Actually, I said those 3 razors "were less comfortable" (past tense). I got great shaves with them at various points, so I didn't blame the razors. I talked about my experience with them. Now, there's a lot of razors that I'd reach for first.
 
Polarising discussion.

If shave using plate 2 on the Rockwell I have nice pleasant shaves, but if I go to plate 3 I have a lot of irritation, more likelihood of nicks, and definite extra burn on my skin.

From what I've read here, this is my technique which needs improving... Am I right? Has plate 2 given me bad habits?
If you are getting shaves that you enjoy from plate 2, then that's exactly what you should do.

I started with an Edwin Jagger DE89, and I really focused on my technique before changing razors. I picked 1 soap and 1 brush to go with my 1 razor. I did that on the advice of others, which allowed me to do detailed personal testing of blades.

By only changing one variable at a time, you can really focus on that product. After testing 25+ blades in my 1 razor, with 1 soap and 1 brush, it was easier to hone it on my preferences.

I started wet shaving as an experiment. I think most people should look at it that way, and find what works for them. There is a caveat, and that is your preferences are almost certain to change.

If someone had handed me an 84 GC, ATT Windsor H, or R41 just a year ago, I'd have been a bloody mess. Today, those are my favorite daily drivers.

If you have already found your perfect destination razor in the Rockwell, then congrats and enjoy!

Happy shaves
 
YES. THIS.
And yet, what many mild razor enthusiasts miss is the problematic design issues with negative blade exposure.

If you use perfect technique (ie, no pressure), while employing the shave angle the razor is designed for, it is actually not possible for the blade to touch the skin. Instead, the rigidity and sharpness of the blade merely slices through the extending hairs.

Here's a perfect example from Tatara Razors:

1538150882800.jpeg

The Tatara Masamune above is designed to shave within .13 mm of your skin. So, if you are BBS after using it, then you had to have used pressure, pulled out hairs, or you have thin hairs and a sparse beard that merely "feels" smoother to the skin, instead of actually getting to the skin.

Several versions of Techs, Karve plates AA, A, B, and C, the Razorock Mamba, and the Tatara above all have negative blade exposure.

But what if you have sensitive skin, curly hairs, a proclivity to ingrown hairs, thick beard growth, with a mixture of thick hairs and wiry think hairs, like I do?

It is foolhardy to say "YMMV" and every razor is different and your face is different, and then assume that certain razors will shave certain faces equally well with an equal number of passes "if you have good technique and prep".

That is wrong.

For me, my face feels pretty darn smooth some 10+ hours after shaving with the R41, H, GC 84, and even with the less comfortable Dart before returning that.

On the other hand, I noticed more growth and stubble on my face after only a few hours, when I shave with some Techs, my Slim on 2, Ming Shi on 1.

Again, YMMV.

Happy shaves.
 
I have only shaved with 2 razors, starting with Edwin Jagger, and now Mùhle rocca which is considered more aggressive than the Edwin Jagger razor, but not as much as the R41. I have sensitive skin, yet have nò cuts or irritation with the Rocca .....i did with Edwin Jagger occasionally. I think the key is to get a good quality lather with a thin protective layer and good glide. I wonder if the R41 should be considered by me. My skin is in wonderful condition since using Rocca
 
I have only shaved with 2 razors, starting with Edwin Jagger, and now Mùhle rocca which is considered more aggressive than the Edwin Jagger razor, but not as much as the R41. I have sensitive skin, yet have nò cuts or irritation with the Rocca .....i did with Edwin Jagger occasionally. I think the key is to get a good quality lather with a thin protective layer and good glide. I wonder if the R41 should be considered by me. My skin is in wonderful condition since using Rocca

I had a very similar experience.

Started off with the Merkur 34c and got decent shaves for around a year or so.

Then I saw an iKon set were you got that 101, 102, 103 and 104 heads with the bulldog handle. Thought it would give me chance to try a variety of different heads, closes comb, open comb and slant without spending a fortune on separate razors.

I heard the 104 (iKon Tech) was meant to me very aggressive and comparable to the R41 (2013 version). Haven't tried the R41 so can't compare.

Gave the 104 a try out of curiosity to see whether it was really “all that” in terms of aggressiveness. Haven't looked back since and it is my daily driver. I get very good and comfy shaves with it. I have hardly tried any of the other heads that came in the set.

I think some people will lean towards the known aggressive razors for the “manliness factor”, but others, like myself just stumble across an aggressive razor that happen to be the perfect razor for them.
 
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And yet, what many mild razor enthusiasts miss is the problematic design issues with negative blade exposure.

If you use perfect technique (ie, no pressure), while employing the shave angle the razor is designed for, it is actually not possible for the blade to touch the skin. Instead, the rigidity and sharpness of the blade merely slices through the extending hairs.

Here's a perfect example from Tatara Razors:

View attachment 38601

The Tatara Masamune above is designed to shave within .13 mm of your skin. So, if you are BBS after using it, then you had to have used pressure, pulled out hairs, or you have thin hairs and a sparse beard that merely "feels" smoother to the skin, instead of actually getting to the skin.

Several versions of Techs, Karve plates AA, A, B, and C, the Razorock Mamba, and the Tatara above all have negative blade exposure.

But what if you have sensitive skin, curly hairs, a proclivity to ingrown hairs, thick beard growth, with a mixture of thick hairs and wiry think hairs, like I do?

It is foolhardy to say "YMMV" and every razor is different and your face is different, and then assume that certain razors will shave certain faces equally well with an equal number of passes "if you have good technique and prep".

That is wrong.

For me, my face feels pretty darn smooth some 10+ hours after shaving with the R41, H, GC 84, and even with the less comfortable Dart before returning that.

On the other hand, I noticed more growth and stubble on my face after only a few hours, when I shave with some Techs, my Slim on 2, Ming Shi on 1.

Again, YMMV.

Happy shaves.
Well put and +1.
In theory a Tech should shave as close as any other razor, in the same amount of passes, and although the German for razor is planer, our faces aren't a flat piece of wood.
A few years ago the Tech and the Wilkinson Sword Sticky could've been my daily shavers but my skin prefers two passes and both those razors now need three passes to give me a dfs.
 
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Well put and +1.
In theory a Tech should shave as close as any other razor, in the same amount of passes, and although the German for razor is planer, our faces aren't a flat piece of wood.
A few years ago the Tech and the Wilkinson Sword Sticky could've been my daily shavers but my skin prefers two passes and both those razors now need three passes to give me a dfs.

It's a good point well made. To you, a shave is more comfortable in two passes than three. Has nothing to do with the razors ability to shave - they all work.

It's this that we need more of - misinformation guiding people to try new razors and blades when their shaves aren't up to scratch is the problem I have
 
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