TV licence, help me to understand

Cristobal

Cristobal

Messages
1,256
Location
London
The situation:
My landlady who got rid of her TV screen last year and resigned her TV licence, has just received a mail today from the TV licence authority/organisation. The letter states that some kind of inspector might pay a visit in order to control if there is any device to watch TV.

Nothing wrong with that.

If you look closely at the list of devices, besides TV's, it includes mobile phones and computers amongst other things.
According to this site:
http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/d...ave-money-on-your-tv-licence-catchup-3423808/
You need a TV licence only if you have a means (device or software) to watch TV live broadcast.

Nothing wrong with that either, I do not watch live broadcast, although I do catch up some French TV programs, but it is neither BBC nor British shows and catching up is allowed.

The problem:
However, what strikes me is the fact that some person/stranger who is not a civil servant, works for a private company hired by BBC/TV licence and who is neither police, nor represents any official authority, in order to control the device (looking for software), may have access to my computer/hard drive, and thus private data.

To me it sounds like some kind of invasion of privacy, and if I remember correctly, even in France the police need some kind of warrant from a judge to look into your computer/hard drive.

Question:
Are they really allowed to access your computer/data without any kind of warrant? If so I would be very surprised and the TV Licence letter is rather vague...
 
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The TV licence system does not bother me (in fact I could not care less, the BBC player is not installed on my PC and there's no TV in the house), my main concern is just to let a stranger enter in my home and access to sensitive data on my computer (e.g. bank statements or other personal data)
 
I'm pretty sure if you were accessing live broadcast there would be a way to determine your IP address without physically coming to your home and rummaging through your belongings and devices. The majority of homes in the UK are now accessing through a Freeview box or SKY, TalkTalk, BT etc which uses an access ID on the phone line or can be determined by signal.

I wouldn't let them in.

This also opens up a whole can of worms - if you can access live TV through software, anyone on the planet would be able to do this, will the TV Inspector be visiting other countries to check ? If so it sounds like a great job...(I'm off to the Cayman islands to inspect an iPAD thats just accessed Cbeebies.........)
 
Yes they kinda closing the loop to get more fodder in to the trough, so if there is no bib reception on any of the devices (ie no player is installed) you should be OK. They will not need access to your equipment only to record your IP and match it against who pay license in the property. However, to look at your equipment is a different fish altogether.

How the F**k they going to match the ip to the person if multiple users are under the same router ? (let's say a shared access in a building of flats or a hot spot) is anyone's guess.

The Bib has no access, ability to access or legal right to access devices which are secure by nature (computers basically).
This is why the old proof is based on ancient technology like TV, you have a set? yes you have means of reception and the TV can connect to the said means? ok sir you need to pay. There is basically no other way for them to get evidence.

The fact is that the law is on odds here with technology, and I don't think it's technology who will back down but that the trough will get smaller and smaller, once small enough the law will probably change to accommodate the new smaller pig trough.

The bib is doing great stuff in large but why not have a way of paying for it without sinking billions into antiquated taxing and collection systems? If they tomorrow say that financing the service is done by opting in it will make sense. I think the powers in charge already know this and they just wait for the right time to get their act together.

1791.jpg
 
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If he isn't from HMRC or doesn't have a warrant, you are within right to refuse entry. The TV Licence bogeyman has been farmed out to the private sector and become a debt collector firm. They can send very persuasive blokes round but you should refuse entry. Your point about invasion of privacy is fundamental, both about your home and your computer.

I have a mate who has been fighting this battle for decades - because he cannot watch live TV in his home but no-one will believe him.

iPlayer either has or is going to be included in the licencing law.
 
Shemen Zait said:
Yes they kinda closing the loop to get more fodder in to the trough, so if there is no bib reception on any of the devices (ie no player is installed) you should be OK. They will not need access to your equipment only to record your IP and match it against who pay license in the property. However, to look at your equipment is a different fish altogether.

How the F**k they going to match the ip to the person if multiple users are under the same router ? (let's say a shared access in a building of flats or a hot spot) is anyone's guess.

The Bib has no access, ability to access or legal right to access devices which are secure by nature (computers basically).
This is why the old proof is based on ancient technology like TV, you have a set? yes you have means of reception and the TV can connect to the said means? ok sir you need to pay. There is basically no other way for them to get evidence.

The fact is that the law is on odds here with technology, and I don't think it's technology who will back down but that the trough will get smaller and smaller, once small enough the law will probably change to accommodate the new smaller pig trough.

The bib is doing great stuff in large but why not have a way of paying for it without sinking billions into antiquated taxing and collection systems? If they tomorrow say that financing the service is done by opting in it will make sense. I think the powers in charge already know this and they just wait for the right time to get their act together.

1791.jpg
Click to expand...

The Bib? = BBC?
 
Purbeck said:
I'm pretty sure if you were accessing live broadcast there would be a way to determine your IP address without physically coming to your home and rummaging through your belongings and devices. The majority of homes in the UK are now accessing through a Freeview box or SKY, TalkTalk, BT etc which uses an access ID on the phone line or can be determined by signal.

I wouldn't let them in.

This also opens up a whole can of worms - if you can access live TV through software, anyone on the planet would be able to do this, will the TV Inspector be visiting other countries to check ? If so it sounds like a great job...(I'm off to the Cayman islands to inspect an iPAD thats just accessed Cbeebies.........)
Click to expand...

I use a VPN 99% of the time, at the moment my IP should be in Germany...
 
I don't mind the inspection since I respect the law regarding the TV licence, I'm just worrying about my landlady letting in a stranger and him playing around with our respective computers. In France, it's simpler, the persons who would inspect, would be from the Tax administration (which in a certain manner is way more powerful than police...)

The thing is that if I'm not home, nobody can access the computer without a password, so that partially solves the problem.

For those interested, I found this forum with "crispy" stories/discussions:
http://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum/index.php
 
Ye the BIb is the nikname, vpn is another thing that they can't do nothing about. They push themselves into a corner where they never going to win so they should really take a leaf from James E. Watson‘s favourite quote 'if you can't beat them, join them'

The bib get about 73% cashback towards the prosecution of around 150,000 people a year which is somewhere around £3.2 mil (this is not including the pressure on the magistrates courts which I doubt is measurable), however they claim that evading the tax cost them something like £200 mil so this is a big pie for them. I think the future will bring far more many prosecution when Iplayer is brought under the fee. What I think will happen then is that the legal challenge against the bib will be much more robust so the above cost for prosecution will spiral and eventually gov will drug them to move into a different model screaming and shouting, something that they can already do now.

The numbers are from the TV Licence Fee Enforcement Review of 2015 if you bother (page 82 to be precise).
 
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Don't worry, we have the TV licence in France too...

It's a tax beside the local tax.
The current debate about it in France, is whether to include or not computer in the tax, since the routers have a hard drive inside that enables recording TV programs. Standard internet/phone subscriptions include around 30 TV channels (and more if you opt for extra channels).

I had a subscription for 5 years, and since I hadn't a TV I never paid the tax, never saw an inspector either.
 
If they come knocking invite them in and tell them to have a good look around, chances are they won't bother.

Besides the odd letter that should be the end of it.
 
Bechet said:
If he isn't from HMRC or doesn't have a warrant, you are within right to refuse entry. The TV Licence bogeyman has been farmed out to the private sector and become a debt collector firm. They can send very persuasive blokes round but you should refuse entry. Your point about invasion of privacy is fundamental, both about your home and your computer.
Click to expand...

Damn right! No warrant, no entry. Anyone.

Even if someone has a warrant, refuse them anyway and make them break in. Call their bluff, regardless.
 
Ok, thank you all for your input.

Whether letting the TV licence inspector in or not is my landlady's decision. So if there is an inspection, either I'm there and I won't let any stranger access to my computer or I'm absent and nobody could access to it without my password anyway.

However, it's really a grey area here: employees of a private company hired by the BBC, with the power to sanction a homeowner via the TV licence fee if they can't inspect your home, without any warrant or on official grounds.
 
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