Where to start my espresso journey?

Badger410

Badger410

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495
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West London
I've recently got into fresh coffee (Aeropress, V60 and French press) and want to get into espresso but not sure what should be my first purchase.

I am considering a manual press from Flair either the Pro 2 or one of the 58s, a Gaggia classic, which I would want to mod or the much more expensive Saga double boiler.

Of the Flair offerings I think I want the electrically heated 58 over the 58x but they're not readily available.
Secondhand Gaggia classics are also proving difficult to source and I'm not sure I want to void the warranty on a new one.
The cost of the Saga concerns me as a first purchase.

I have many questions...........

What would you do?
Do you have any opinions or experience with any of the above?
Do you know of any sources, other than the "bay" for Gaggias?
Should I be considering something else?

TIA :)
 
There is a coffee forum Google coffee forum uk as they have a sales section much like this site. Be prepared for a big rabbit hole to go down and much frustration trying to get a perfect shot. I got involved but ended up buying a bean to cup and put my grinder and gaggia in the loft.
 
fly3k said:
Oh and I’d say if you don’t particularly like straight espresso shots you may as well stick with what you have. Decent beans and a grinder with your above methods will get you a nice mug of coffee.
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Thanks for the reply. I will have a look at the forum.

I have a grinder and am getting through some fresh roasted beans from a local ish roaster (Union hand roasters)
I am already past the entrance of the coffee rabbit hole and see it as another hobby, so the experimenting for a good shot, is part of the attraction.
 
Hey!
OK, firstly, I used to be on CFUK and so did Wintoid. That forum is now just a link farm after being carpetbagged by VerticalScope so if I were you I would forget CFUK. I will put a link to the two forums that spawned from it, which are good and active.

I have an Aeropress for brewed coffee but for espresso or milk drinks based on espresso I use my Rocket R58 which is a very old (11 years) one of the first run but still going great. Cost me a large even as a used mc so the new ones are silly out of budget now.

If you want espresso you do definitely need a decent true espresso machine. My mate has a Sage Barista Express. It's considerably more affordable than the shiny E61 machines like mine and still makes a decent shot. My only fear with Sage (aka Breville) is that they're quite complex internally with bits that are not so easily sourced unlike the more trad machines.

I had a Gaggia Classic which is OK, 58mm portafilter etc. Single small boiler is the reason people mod them, to try to better manage the temperature. You can fit a PID, mine had the Auber kit but I'm an eletron00b so I bought mine already modded off a forum member.

Dave you're not far from me as we know, so if you want to talk coffee you are welcome to come and play with my kit.


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This forum is basically what grew out of the "Lighter Side of Life" beans group buy syndicate which is why I'm on there. Its a decent forum and there are some knowledgeable people there. There is a bloke called Coffeechap (another Dave) who knows a lot about grinders and sells refurbished ones etc. Daren and Chris still do the light roasted beans group buy (LSOL).
There is a 'PC' element on there which is worth bearing in mind before telling any old school jokes, but plenty of good folk too.

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This is DavecUK's forum and a pretty relaxed place, fairly thick skins but also a decent bunch of guys, a few of whom I also know IRL. Dave himself is an engineer and extremely knowledgeable about designing or fixing espresso machines, grinders, roasting, RO systems etc and he's a helpful guy. He roasts in his garage.

There are probably guys on either forum who can help you find a suitable machine.

One thing I always thought about espresso (unlike shaving) is that the more expensive kit does often make it easier for a relative newbie to get consistent good results after a short learning curve, whereas the cheaper machines that are thought of as 'entry level' require more workarounds, temperature surfing and raindances to appease the coffee gods. So I personally would say spend as much as you can after researching, and get a temp stable machine and the best grinder you can.

Sage Barista Express will make a decent shot for around the half K price range.

The Sage Dual Boiler is a lot more expensive but said to be a good machine, although I would want an extended warranty.

You might look at Lelit machines, Anna, Elizabeth depending on budget.

You could consider a manual lever like a La Pavoni. They also have temperature management foibles you need to learn though, as they get hotter with multiple shots.

I remember there used to be a bloke called Gaggiamanualservice (Mark) who used to refurb Classics, no idea which forum (if any) he is on now though.

Hope that helps, even if it just saves you getting sucked into the link farm that CFUK has sadly become. Either of the 2 fora above are full of people who can give you advice about espresso making, roasters to try, and what's new kit-wise.

I'm happy to try to help regarding beans, technique etc. I'm no mega expert though but if you want to come over one Saturday afternoon we can geek out. All I know about kit choice is what I posted above though - I haven't thought about spending money on kit since everything went tits up for me about 4 years ago. Luckily my good gear is still working and I know where to buy beans I like.
 
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Do you want espresso or do you want a hobby?

If you want the former, buy a Breville Bambino and stay away from forums.

If you want the latter, buy a Gaggia Classic and join the online cult.

There is perhaps no better example of the consequences of bored men with too much free cash than with the Coffee community.

All hobbies are subject to lore and rituals but non more so than coffee!
 
hotmetal said:
You forget hi-fi!!!
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HI FI.... I wish I had been happy with a music centre from woolworths, because I have spent loads on amps and turntables and speakers and CD players and dac,s and other hi fi stuff., while my brother is quite happy to listen to a scratchy tinny old shitty phone for his music collection.
Saying that I can pull out loads of music, put it on and it sounds great.
 
Yes, I was always interested in getting a decent sound but thankfully, my lack of 'major' disposable income and my contacts in the industry meant that I was able to avoid flipping hifi in pursuit of nirvana and just gradually upgraded stuff with well-advised purchases and the odd trade discounts and I am completely cured from upgraditis on the hifi front. I never bought into the hifi forum foo, mainly because I was too busy going down the espresso rabbit hole! Still only on 2nd espresso machine because they're also damn expensive but mine seems to be robust and I have no need to change it. If I had money to burn I probably would have tried a shiny spring lever machine but I'll be honest I'm actually happy with my espresso game 90% of the time and anyway I usually drink it with steamed milk, so no point dicking about with every WDT gadget, refractometers and flipping £1k grinders and £2k machines. Sometimes I think the more money you have, the easier it is to get drawn into spending it just for fun. Which, of course, is the whole point of having dough, so you can indulge your interests and curiosity once you have met your real obligations. I'm allergic to high status high maintenance wimminz though... and no doubt they'd probably say the same hahaha!

Soaps and razors just kind of fall into the accessibility bracket where my resistance is low however!
 
Interesting thread.

I am no expert, I like good coffee and have been to coffee places that have machines that whoosh and bang and pop and they give me a coffee that tastes worse than the Percol instant coffee that I have at home and yet when I go to Portuugal everywhere, even the grottiest greasy spoon, gives me an espresso or an Americano that is perfect.

The start point for me would be the roaster, compared to five years ago there are some good people out there but my choice would be to try Dark Woods Coffee, good long taste on their coffee without bitternes.

It all depends on what you are looking for.
 
Never a truer word spoken. YMMV applies to coffee at least as much as shave gear. Some love dark roast, indeed many have had great holidays in Europe and the coffee is an accessible souvenir. Some like light roast, although that lends itself more towards filter. I like mine fruity and a bit lighter than medium. My weakness is natural process or these new anaerobic processes which lend booze to the fruit. You can end up with espresso that reminds you of rum punch and with milk is like a hot strawberry and lime milkshake.
 
jimmyc said:
HI FI.... I wish I had been happy with a music centre from woolworths, because I have spent loads on amps and turntables and speakers and CD players and dac,s and other hi fi stuff., while my brother is quite happy to listen to a scratchy tinny old shitty phone for his music collection.
Saying that I can pull out loads of music, put it on and it sounds great.
Click to expand...

I bought a HiFi separates system in 2000 and added a M-Audio 2496 soundcard to my PC the year after. The PC changed, but the soundcard and HiFI system are still the same over 20 years down the line and still going strong. I never knew how serious the HiFI bug was until I started posting here!

My other hobby, guitars has robbed any funds/dignity to put funds towards anything else!
 
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