Artisan soaps vs mass produced

There's a great deal of evidence that food tastes better when eaten with heavier, higher quality cutlery...apparently the weight is associated in the brain with quality and it raises the senses interpretation of taste as 'quality' too. I think something similar may happen with product packaging and branding, including the term 'artisan'...isn't it possible that often (not always) our brains associate artisan with quality and uniqueness/rarity and determine that the shave MUST therefore be great?

I find that I can tell the difference between shaves when using a different blade, razor and post shave balm, but I'm not so certain about shave cream. All of the creams I've tried (and there are many) have worked well as long as I've prepped my face properly and applied the soap appropriately. The soap, for me, has a similar level of importance as aftershave lotion...it all seems to do the job it's intended for but some have scents I prefer more than others...and from these I get more of an aroma-therapy lift. I may sound like a hypocrite because I have a good range of aftershaves and shave soaps and I will buy more (including artisan ones that might be on the expensive side)...but I'm certain that the quality of my shave will remain largely unchanged if I use the right razor and blade...the soap won't make much difference (unless I'm allergic to somethings it!)
 
Daniel said:
I can see no relation between small vs large scale manufacture and the temptation to "cut corners".
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Basic economics. As beginner artisan, you are creating a product that no one has any desire to buy. You don't have a name, you don't have anything. You are not gonna go ahead and buy top-of-the-line equipment and ingredients. Most starting businesses can't afford them, and there's also no assurance that your investment will be returned. There are, of course, exceptions. A good businessman will have a good business plan, he might get a bank loan based on that, he will afford to use good stuff right from the start. But when you just start out, it's hard to imagine that every artisan soap maker is getting the top ingredients and equipment. You can't really say that you don't see any relation because it's pretty obvious. Again, I'm not talking about specific business. If you conduct your business in a fair manner, good for you, that's how everyone should do it. But it's not always the case.

On a large scale, you have funds for testing, for surveys, you can afford to hire experienced people that can make a good product, lawyers that will help you get all the paperwork, you have funds to market it, and you also have distributors that will sell that product. You can't afford to throw away a batch of 100.000 soaps just because you wanted to save some money.

You are more prone to food poisoning if you eat in a small, empty restaurant than in a KFC.
 
SmurfK said:
You are more prone to food poisoning if you eat in a small, empty restaurant than in a KFC.
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There are several rare and not necessarily tasty foods that can kill...but people often like to try them just because they are potentially deadly and they have a certain reputational allure (Not sure if KFC qualifies, but I've certainly known some that might!:rolleyes:)...In other words, they don't eat them for the taste but the experience...if you pay an exceptional price you are more likely to tell people you had an exceptional experience. I would be surprised if artisan shave soaps didn't fall into the same category...I would be equally surprised if artisan shave soaps didn't deliver on the quality front.

I will continue to support artisans in this industry...they are important and deliver choice and innovation that adds to the enjoyment of we wet shavers ...but I won't do so under the illusion that there prices are based on the quality of their product. Their prices are based on the realities of their economic circumstances and profit margins...it is their willingness to endure these makes them worthwhile supporting.

(If you check the thread on 'What are you drinking tonight, you'll see that I've been working my way through a box of Asda Shiraz...this might account for my opinionated posts this evening:p:eek::oops:;):))
 
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SmurfK said:
For me, mass produced goods offer a specific level of security regarding the ingredients used. I trust that Colgate will verify their tallow for pesticides and they will buy it from reputable vendors, while I can't know that about the dude that's making soap in his basement. It's just a personal concern.
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Your trust in big multinational companies is cute. What makes you think Colgate/P&G/{insert BIG name} wouldn't cut corners and get the cheapest ingredients known to shavekind if they thought they'd get away with it and make a few more pence per customer. You're happy to 'trust' Colgate, but you need to 'know' that Wickham/Nanny/P&B/OSP/{insert passionate soap maker's name} won't try and cut corners...
How very quaint.
 
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Nisse said:
Talk, talk, anyone with an artisan soap ready to actually challenge Haslinger :)
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Interesting...never tried Haslinger but at around £6.50 for 60g (60ml) in the UK, it seems close to the Artisan price range...I would reckon many artisan soaps could at least equal it. I would ask if an artisan soap could challenge something like Cella or Proraso, which are closer to the £4-£6 range for 150g (150ml)...again, the answer is probably no, simply because their performance is more or less the same (subject to facial variations) but artisans face higher costs (per tub) to manufacture.
 
Greybeard said:
Interesting...never tried Haslinger but at around £6.50 for 60g (60ml) in the UK, it seems close to the Artisan price range...I would reckon many artisan soaps could at least equal it. I would ask if an artisan soap could challenge something like Cella or Proraso, which are closer to the £4-£6 range for 150g (150ml)...again, the answer is probably no, simply because their performance is more or less the same (subject to facial variations) but artisans face higher costs (per tub) to manufacture.
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You will get it Cheaper from this Seller on EBay..The 60 G Pucks Last for Ever..There is a Discount if You Buy a Couple of Pucks from here..I have Never Came Across an Artisan Soap that Can Look Near it..Artisan Means Nothing to Me..:)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/6-17-100g-Ha...398638?hash=item360504402e:g:o84AAOSw1KxXM2La

Billy
 
Greybeard said:
...I find that I can tell the difference between shaves when using a different blade, razor and post shave balm, but I'm not so certain about shave cream. All of the creams I've tried (and there are many) have worked well as long as I've prepped my face properly and applied the soap appropriately...
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Consider yourself lucky as I sure can! For example, where I am it's hotter than the hubs of Hell!! 100F (38C) today and humidity 75%+. :eek: I used my old tube of Ingrams menthol that I keep in the 'fridge and although I can get a good lather with it, it has piss poor 'glide' IMO. A good soap not only lathers well, but it has 'glide' or slickness. That's where the rubber meets the road. Just my 2 cents.
 
It is pretty sensational stuff, I bought a couple of pucks from that seller after reading Billy waxing lyrical about it a while back. You just need to show it a well hydrated brush and it will instantly lather up a bounty of suds. It has it all, cushion, glide & slickness.
However, I've got to say that James OSP is equally incredible, it truly matches all the qualities of Hasslinger I've stated, imo. Having said that, next time I order Hasslinger I will try the sheeps milk version, which is supposed to be a step up as it has the addition of lanolin, as does OSP soap.
 
Eeyore68 said:
Haslinger employs about 15 people (certainly less than 20), so they definitely fit into the "small companies" for me.

If you want to compare, then it should be artisan (or Cella, or Haslinger, or Valobra) against Palmolive or Monsavon.

I know which side wins for me.
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Absolutely - Palmolive wins hands down. To date the only soap I've found that I can honestly say outperforms the trusty Palmolive stick is Tabac.
 
OSP said:
I spoke to a fellow artisan who sells at markets. He told me he got chatting to other soap makers and they didn't even know that they had to abide by certain regs. I didn't until i covered my back and got in touch with trading standards to find out!
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After the Brexit referendum maybe you won't have to comply to EU regulations for long...;)
I had a small talk a few weeks ago with a well-known French artisan soap maker. He explained to me that in France, if you don't respect the EU regulations, the sanitary authorities can confiscate all the merchandise/production ; the ingredients/composition missing on the label is a sufficient motive to withdraw the whole batch from retailer's shop.

The problem is that the rules are not the same in the USA, so basically some artisans export their production to the EU without detailing the composition, whereas the European have to obtain some kind of official agreement. The artisan I know, who is a chemical engineer, has his products tested and validated by a pharmacist, which induces costs, and the composition sent to the anti-poison centre (a French governmental organisation which gather datas about any products for consummers, in case of ingestion).
 
SmurfK said:
Basic economics. As beginner artisan, you are creating a product that no one has any desire to buy. You don't have a name, you don't have anything. You are not gonna go ahead and buy top-of-the-line equipment and ingredients. Most starting businesses can't afford them, and there's also no assurance that your investment will be returned. There are, of course, exceptions. A good businessman will have a good business plan, he might get a bank loan based on that, he will afford to use good stuff right from the start. But when you just start out, it's hard to imagine that every artisan soap maker is getting the top ingredients and equipment. You can't really say that you don't see any relation because it's pretty obvious. Again, I'm not talking about specific business. If you conduct your business in a fair manner, good for you, that's how everyone should do it. But it's not always the case.

On a large scale, you have funds for testing, for surveys, you can afford to hire experienced people that can make a good product, lawyers that will help you get all the paperwork, you have funds to market it, and you also have distributors that will sell that product. You can't afford to throw away a batch of 100.000 soaps just because you wanted to save some money.

You are more prone to food poisoning if you eat in a small, empty restaurant than in a KFC.
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Bit of a joke that.

It's not simple economics, what you're questioning is the morality and integrity of artisans based on apparent low sales volume. Based on what? Don't say economics it's nothing to do with economics. Artisan = handcrafted product, it doesn't equal an idiot with no business sense and no money.

Again, what we are discussing here is artisan soap, you stressed it yourself. What gives you the impression artisans are financially unable to afford the basic equipment and basic ingredients to do this safely and effectively? Quite insulting really.

Go ahead and trust your spotty teenager at KFC serving you food that's been sat there for over 2 hours (he just wants to get home to play Xbox and isn't interested in his work) vs a stunning family run italian restaurant (who says it's empty because it's small?!) thats packed out the doors with a fantastic atmosphere, great food and 5 star hygiene certificate on the door.

Mass produced cosmetics don't have an ingredient list like a periodic table...because they care about you...it's because, their ingredients are cheap AND bought in bulk
 
Never really got the artisan soap thing. Tried a few, some lather really well, but the scents just are not for me. The price is not proportionate to the shave or the experience.....then if you want to import, then it can get silly.

Figaro to this day is my favorite for performance, scent and price. As an example with Stuarts discount at Shaving Station, it is cheap as chips. Performs like a dream!

I'm happy with mass produced, and don't mind people paying for and discussing Artisan soaps. Just not for me. Never understood it.

Sent from my Wileyfox Swift using Tapatalk
 
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