Bluffers Guide to British Triple Milled

pjgh

pjgh

Messages
15,922
Location
Halifax, Republic of Yorkshire
Some thoughts based in ingredients lists ... and more importantly, experience. Current production.

Trumpers - rumoured to be made by Soapworks (Glasgow)* and despite a recent reformulation still does not produce a sound or stable lather

(c.2015?) Eucris by way of example:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Cocoate, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Tetrasodium ETDA, Sodium Chloride, Isopropyl Myristrate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Evernia Furfuracea, BHT, Coumerin, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

Recent reformulation Eucris (as an example):
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Aqua (Water), Glycerin, Sodium Cocoate, Parfum (Fragrance), Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate, Isopropyl Myristate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Coconut Fatty Acid, Evernia Furfuracea, BHT, Coumarin, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

... interestingly, Haryali London ingredient list is very much like the older Trumpers formulation:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Cocoate, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Titanium Dioxide, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Benzyl Benzoate, Linalool, Limonene, Hexy Cinnamal

T&H - formerly Soapworks (Glasgow)* recently reformulated and now produced by a different manufacturer:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Stearate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerin, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Palm Kernel Acid, Parfum (Fragrance), Titanium Dioxide, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Gluconate, Linalool, Coumarin

Trumpers Officer & Gentleman / Oxford Blue - same as T&H current formulation:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Stearate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerin, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Palm Kernel Acid, Parfum (Fragrance), Titanium Dioxide, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Gluconate, Linalool, Coumarin

TOBS (Traditional) - related to T&H:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Cocoate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Parfum (Fragrance), Palm Kernel Fatty Acid, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Linalool, Coumarin, Geraniol, Limonene, Cinnamal, Citronellol, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

MWF - reformulated 2023 and now very closely related to T&H ... basically, T&H with Lanolin:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua, Potassium Stearate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerin, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Palm Kernel Acid, Parfum, Sodium Chloride, Lanolin, Titanium Dioxide, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentesodium Pentetate, Sodium Gluconate, Tetrasodium EDTA & Limonene

Vulfix - very oddly, this is strongly related to T&H but does not produce a sound or stable lather:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua, Potassium Stearate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerin, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Palm Kernel Acid, Titanium Dioxide, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Sodium Gluconate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium EDTA

Floris - kinda out on their own with a formulation unlike the others ... with Shea Butter:
Potassium Palmate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Palmate, Glycerin, Aqua (Water), Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Stearate, Palm Kernel Acid, Parfum (Fragrance), Limonene, Linalool, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Avena Sativa (Oat) Kernel Flour, Geraniol, Coumarin, Citronellol, Hexyl Cinnamal, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

... and onto the remaining tallow soaps.

DR Harris - Arlington, Marlborough, Almond & Lavender:
Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Glycerin, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Parfum (Fragrance), Coconut Acid, Linalool, Petrolatum, Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Potassium Cocoate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Edta, Benzyl Alcohol, O-Tolyl Biguanide, Coumarin, Ci 77891

DR Harris - Windsor & Sandalwood with a minor variation in the list:
Potassium Palmate, Sodium Tallowate, Aqua, Glycerin, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Palm Kernel Acid, Perfum (Fragrance), Petrolatum, Sodium Chloride, Linalool, Coumarin, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium EDTA, O-Tolyl biguanide, Limonene, CI 77891

Cyril R Salter - practically the same as DR Harris Tallow-first formulation:
Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Glycerin, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Parfum (Fragrance), Coconut Acid, Petrolatum, Linalool, Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Potassium Cocoate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Edta, O-Tolyl Biguanide, Coumarin, Geraniol, D-Limolene, Citronellol, Ci 77891

Captain Fawcett - related to the DR Harris formulation:
Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua, Potassium Laurate, Sodium Laurate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Parfum, Palm Kernal Acid, Potassium, Palm Kernelate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate, O-Tolyl Biguanide, Linalool, Eugenol, Limonene, Coumarin, Petrolatum, Tetrasodium EDTA, CI 77891

Bottom line?

Trumpers - don't expect their soaps to produce a usable lather other than Officer & Gentleman and Oxford Blue
DR Harris - always were absolutely sound soaps (except Naturals) ... Cyril R Salter & Captain Fawcett provide interesting additions with very similar formulations
T&H - absolutely sound soaps now ... TOBS (Traditional) has a similar formulation
MWF - very much related to T&H formulation with the additional of lanolin

*Note that I refer to Soapworks (Glasgow) as distinct from the Soapworks development in Salford, which is built upon the former Colgate/Palmolive plant.

Anyone know anything else to add, refine or nip up the details of this? @SeanC perhaps?

We could maybe use this thread for known-good historic formulations of, say, Trumpers, Crabtree & Evelyn, Penhaligons and so on ...
 
pjgh said:
We could maybe use this thread for known-good historic formulations of, say, Trumpers, Crabtree & Evelyn, Penhaligons and so on ...
Click to expand...

So, for example, my C&E Mysore Sandalwood (c.1978) has the following ingredient list:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Water (Aqua), Glycerine, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Stearic Acid, Fragrance (Parfum), Isoproyl Myristate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Chloride, BHT, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Titanium Dioxide (CI 77891), D&C Yellow No.10 (CI 47005), Iron Oxides (CI 77491, CI 77492 & CI77499)
 
Too much text without a picture so here's a picture of my hero

iu


(nice write up Paul)
 
Are the non Soapworks soaps made by Culmak? Do Creighton produce soaps in the former Floris/Penhaligon Broad Oak Toiletries site in the south west?

It's a shame the original soap manufacturer for most of these brands shuttered. I think it was possibly Sigma. Edit - or Standard.
 
Last edited:
Sabre said:
Are the non Soapworks soaps made by Culmak?
Click to expand...

That is a snippet that does the rounds.

Let's have a look at some Culmak formulations that I've managed to find from retail box, forums and their website:

Legacy - really good lather:
Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Cocoate, Aqua, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerine, Paraffinum Liquidum, Parfum, Tetrasodium EDTA, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, CI 77891

Reformulation - not as hot but still pretty good:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua, Potassium Cocoate, Glycerin, Parfum, Linalool, Paraffinum Liquidum, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Geraniol, BHT, Limonene, Citronellol, CI77891

Current - poor lather:
Sodium Cocoate, Aqua, Glycerin, Coconut Acid, Parfum, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Capry/Capramidopropyl Benaine, Paraffinium Liquidium, Zea Mays Oil, Tocopheryl Acetate, Benzyle Benzoate,Citronellol, Limonene, Linalool, CI77891

These formulations don't look like any above, but that's not to say that Culmak don't make those above (good) formulations as well. What is concerning, perhaps, is that current Culmak (and EcoWarrior - same formula) is poor with a foamy lather and juddery glide/slip.
 
Czech & Speake

No.88 < Known good formulation ... same as Valobra/Art of Shaving
Sodium Tallowate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Palmitate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Palmitate, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Cocoate, Potassium Cocoate, Glycerin, Palmitic Acid, Stearic Acid, Cocos Nucifera, Parfum (Fragrance), Lecithin, Petrolatum, Zea Mays, Tocopheryl Acetate, C.I. 77891, C.I. 77499

No.88 (2021 onwards)
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Tallowate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Parfum, Lecithin, Paraffinum Liquidum, Zea Mays Oil, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Chloride, Tocopherol, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Geraniol, Linalool, Citronellol, Hydroxy Citronellal, Limonene, Evernia Prunastri Extract, C.I. 77499, C.I. 177891

Oxford & Cambridge (2021 onwards)
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Tallowate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Parfum, Lecithin, Parafinum Liquidum, Zea Mays Oil, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Chloride, Tocopherol, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Linalool, Limonene, Evernia Prunastri Extract, Geraniol, Coumarin

Bottom line? Like Trumpers, it's no good for shaving.
Does anyone have a pre-2017 Oxford & Cambridge ingredient list? It's be very similar, but the final ingredients will be slightly different to No.88. Short of it is, Tallow-first is good and the all sodium is pants. Damn shame, that

I think the Parafinium Liquidum and Zea Mays Oil relates this soap (and EcoWarrior new formulation soaps) to Culmak, whose current formulation is:
Sodium Cocoate, Aqua, Glycerin, Coconut Acid, Parfum, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Capry/Capramidopropyl Benaine, Paraffinium Liquidium, Zea Mays Oil, Tocopheryl Acetate, Benzyle Benzoate,Citronellol, Limonene, Linalool, CI 77891

... and across my extensive list of ingredients, I don't find Zea Mays elsewhere.
 
Last edited:
Sabre said:
Are the non Soapworks soaps made by Culmak? Do Creighton produce soaps in the former Floris/Penhaligon Broad Oak Toiletries site in the south west?

It's a shame the original soap manufacturer for most of these brands shuttered. I think it was possibly Sigma. Edit - or Standard.
Click to expand...

The Standard Company Ltd produced C&E plus Trumpers and possibly more including Penhaligon, in Leicestershire before they closed in 2011: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-15883734

The webpage has disappeared now, but Soapworks in Glasgow bought the shaving soap manufacturing kit from the receivers.

Their products weren't tallow-based, but they were fit-for-purpose i.e. the 'good version' of Trumpers. Occasionally they can still be found on eBay; look out for shrink-wrapped soap pucks with a round gold sticker, but no obvious branding
 
pjgh said:
Some thoughts based in ingredients lists ... and more importantly, experience. Current production.

Trumpers - rumoured to be made by Soapworks (Glasgow)* and despite a recent reformulation still does not produce a sound or stable lather

(c.2015?) Eucris by way of example:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Cocoate, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Tetrasodium ETDA, Sodium Chloride, Isopropyl Myristrate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Evernia Furfuracea, BHT, Coumerin, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

Recent reformulation Eucris (as an example):
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Aqua (Water), Glycerin, Sodium Cocoate, Parfum (Fragrance), Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate, Isopropyl Myristate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Coconut Fatty Acid, Evernia Furfuracea, BHT, Coumarin, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

... interestingly, Haryali London ingredient list is very much like the older Trumpers formulation:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Cocoate, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Titanium Dioxide, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Benzyl Benzoate, Linalool, Limonene, Hexy Cinnamal

T&H - formerly Soapworks (Glasgow)* recently reformulated and now produced by a different manufacturer:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Stearate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerin, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Palm Kernel Acid, Parfum (Fragrance), Titanium Dioxide, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Gluconate, Linalool, Coumarin

Trumpers Officer & Gentleman / Oxford Blue - same as T&H current formulation:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Stearate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerin, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Palm Kernel Acid, Parfum (Fragrance), Titanium Dioxide, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Gluconate, Linalool, Coumarin

TOBS (Traditional) - related to T&H:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Cocoate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Parfum (Fragrance), Palm Kernel Fatty Acid, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Linalool, Coumarin, Geraniol, Limonene, Cinnamal, Citronellol, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

MWF - reformulated 2023 and now very closely related to T&H ... basically, T&H with Lanolin:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua, Potassium Stearate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerin, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Palm Kernel Acid, Parfum, Sodium Chloride, Lanolin, Titanium Dioxide, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentesodium Pentetate, Sodium Gluconate, Tetrasodium EDTA & Limonene

Vulfix - very oddly, this is strongly related to T&H but does not produce a sound or stable lather:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua, Potassium Stearate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerin, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Palm Kernel Acid, Titanium Dioxide, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Sodium Gluconate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium EDTA

Floris - kinda out on their own with a formulation unlike the others ... with Shea Butter:
Potassium Palmate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Palmate, Glycerin, Aqua (Water), Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Stearate, Palm Kernel Acid, Parfum (Fragrance), Limonene, Linalool, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea) Butter, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Avena Sativa (Oat) Kernel Flour, Geraniol, Coumarin, Citronellol, Hexyl Cinnamal, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

... and onto the remaining tallow soaps.

DR Harris - Arlington, Marlborough, Almond & Lavender:
Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Glycerin, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Parfum (Fragrance), Coconut Acid, Linalool, Petrolatum, Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Potassium Cocoate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Edta, Benzyl Alcohol, O-Tolyl Biguanide, Coumarin, Ci 77891

DR Harris - Windsor & Sandalwood with a minor variation in the list:
Potassium Palmate, Sodium Tallowate, Aqua, Glycerin, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Palm Kernel Acid, Perfum (Fragrance), Petrolatum, Sodium Chloride, Linalool, Coumarin, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium EDTA, O-Tolyl biguanide, Limonene, CI 77891

Cyril R Salter - practically the same as DR Harris Tallow-first formulation:
Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Glycerin, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Parfum (Fragrance), Coconut Acid, Petrolatum, Linalool, Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Potassium Cocoate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Edta, O-Tolyl Biguanide, Coumarin, Geraniol, D-Limolene, Citronellol, Ci 77891

Captain Fawcett - related to the DR Harris formulation:
Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua, Potassium Laurate, Sodium Laurate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Parfum, Palm Kernal Acid, Potassium, Palm Kernelate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate, O-Tolyl Biguanide, Linalool, Eugenol, Limonene, Coumarin, Petrolatum, Tetrasodium EDTA, CI 77891

Bottom line?

Trumpers - don't expect their soaps to produce a usable lather other than Officer & Gentleman and Oxford Blue
DR Harris - always were absolutely sound soaps (except Naturals) ... Cyril R Salter & Captain Fawcett provide interesting additions with very similar formulations
T&H - absolutely sound soaps now ... TOBS (Traditional) has a similar formulation
MWF - very much related to T&H formulation with the additional of lanolin

*Note that I refer to Soapworks (Glasgow) as distinct from the Soapworks development in Salford, which is built upon the former Colgate/Palmolive plant.

Anyone know anything else to add, refine or nip up the details of this? @SeanC perhaps?

We could maybe use this thread for known-good historic formulations of, say, Trumpers, Crabtree & Evelyn, Penhaligons and so on ...
Click to expand...

Extremely good write-up.

There has only ever been circumstantial evidence that Culmak produce the majority of British made hard shaving soaps, both vege and tallow, but a process of elimination leaves them as the main candidate.

There's a very good thread on Floris here that eventually manages to decode the various soap bases used and also digs a little into Broad Oak

There are still pucks of unlatherable T&H soaps in circulation, so checking the ingredients, particularly on the older fragrances, is necessary
 
Taylor of Old Bond Street

I may have made an error above and the correct ingredient list for TOBS Traditional is: < taken from Sharpologist post 2021 (although may be historical)
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Aqua, Glycerin, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Stearic Acid, Parfum, Paraffinum Liquidum, Isopropyl Myristate,Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Chloride, BHT, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, CI 77891

... for reference the (current?) ingredient list I have is:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Cocoate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Parfum (Fragrance), Palm Kernel Fatty Acid, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Linalool, Coumarin, Geraniol, Limonene, Cinnamal, Citronellol, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

... for Sandalwood (Cake): < taken from photo on Amazon TOBS Store
Potassium Palmate, Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Aqua (Water), Parfum/Fragrance, Palm Kernel Fatty Acid, Sodium Chloride, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Linalool, Coumarin, Geraniol, Limolene, Cinnamal, Citronellol, Benzyl Benzoate, Butylphenol Methylpropional, Citral, CI 77891 (Titanium Dioxide)

... and Sandalwood (Stick): < taken from photo on Amazon TOBS Store
Glycerin, Stearic Acid, Aqua (Water), Potassium Hydroxide, Myristic Acid, Sodium Hydroxide, Parfum (Fragrance), Benzyl Benzoate, Eugenol, Citronellol, Benzyl Salicylate, Geraniol, Linalool

Above, I referenced the current Vulfix formulation as VERY similar to current T&H and MWF but unable to form a stable lather. Vulfix has an older formulation (gained from a query with Vulfix in 2011), which was sound and reads as:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Water, Glycerin, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Stearic Acid, Parfum, Limeonene, Paraffinum Liquidum, Linalool, Isopropyl Myristate, BHT, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Chloride, Coumarin, Geraniol, Pentasodium Pentetate ... sans CI 77891 which is Titanium Dioxide (or perhaps not listed)

... the same as TOBS Traditional from Sharpologist's ingredient list (which may well be historical).

Notice the ingredients on my known good C&E (c.1978):
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Water (Aqua), Glycerine, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Stearic Acid, Fragrance (Parfum), Isoproyl Myristate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Chloride, BHT, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Titanium Dioxide (CI 77891), D&C Yellow No.10 (CI 47005), Iron Oxides (CI 77491, CI 77492 & CI77499)

... which again reads VERY similar, if not the same.

So, I believe that ties Vulfix (pre-2011) to TOBS & C&E ... and links together with @SeanC 's snippet above regarding the closure of Standard Company Ltd in 2011 who produced certainly C&E, Trumpers (when good) and most likely Penhaligons.

Contemplating Vulfix, I believe that there must have been a formulation following 2011 that was most likely the same as Trumpers (first) unstable lathering soap ... and I think I have been mis-sold a puck of that version given that actually, it did not come with any ingredient listing on the packaging but I had related the puck I bought with the latest formulation on Vulfix's website.

Given the latest ingredient list is so close to T&H (itself reformulated to that ingredient list a mere few years ago ... 2018?) and MWF, both of which lather perfectly well, I cannot believe that a soap with the self-same ingredient list performs so poorly. I am inclined to procure a puck direct from Vulfix - I bought mine from The Original Shaving Company (eBay) which could well have been old stock.

EDIT: I have found a historical ingredient list for T&H from 2009 (so, pre-2011 which is important):
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Aqua, Glycerin, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Stearic Acid, Parfum, Paraffinum Liquidum, Isopropyl Myristate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Chloride, BHT, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, CI77891

... the same as TOBS Traditional from Sharpologist's ingredient list and Vulfix (circa 2011) confirming in my mind that Sharpologist was referring to a much older formulation in his 2021 post! Like a ten year old plus formulation.
 
Last edited:
So, I think we're saying C&E, Trumpers, Penhaligons, Vulfix, TOBS and (EDIT: possibly) T&H all made by Standard Company Limited until 2011.

From 2011, Trumpers certainly, most likely Vulfix and possibly T&H were then made by Soapworks which produced soaps with very poor reputations.

Maybe 2018, T&H certainly (and possibly TOBS) moved to a new producer (unknown? Culmak* perhaps? < read on) and now have a sound soap. Trumpers reformulated as well around the same time and still have a crap soap. Trumpers Oxford Blue and Officer & Gentleman is the same formulation as the new T&H, I believe (so some hope for Trumpers, ultimately). MWF also came onto this formulation (with the addition of Lanolin) during 2023.

*Meanwhile, circa 2021 something went wrong for Culmak who now have a poor soap which is the same as EcoWarrior. So either we've got it wrong that Culmak make current T&H and TOBS (as well as Trumpers Oxford Blue and Officer & Gentleman) or it's a VERY worrying trajectory for T&H, etc's next formulation!

DR Harris, Cyril R Salter & Captain Fawcett are all tallow-based and known good ... but we know the growing trend toward removing tallow, so guess these will gain a reformulation some time hopefully not too soon.

EDIT: See post above for confirmation that T&H is the same formulation as TOBS and Vulfix pre-2011.
 
Last edited:
pjgh said:
So, I think we're saying C&E, Trumpers, Penhaligons, Vulfix, TOBS and possibly T&H all made by Standard Company Limited until 2011.

From 2011, Trumpers certainly, most likely Vulfix and possibly T&H were then made by Soapworks which produced soaps with very poor reputations.

Maybe 2018, T&H certainly (and possibly TOBS) moved to a new producer (unknown? Culmak* perhaps? < read on) and now have a sound soap. Trumpers reformulated as well around the same time and still have a crap soap. Trumpers Oxford Blue and Officer & Gentleman is the same formulation as the new T&H, I believe (so some hope for Trumpers, ultimately). MWF also came onto this formulation (with the addition of Lanolin) during 2023.

*Meanwhile, circa 2021 something went wrong for Culmak who now have a poor soap which is the same as EcoWarrior. So either we've got it wrong that Culmak make current T&H and TOBS (as well as Trumpers Oxford Blue and Officer & Gentleman) or it's a VERY worrying trajectory for T&H, etc's next formulation!

DR Harris, Cyril R Salter & Captain Fawcett are all tallow-based and known good ... but we know the growing trend toward removing tallow, so guess these will gain a reformulation some time hopefully not too soon.
Click to expand...

The other trend in play is that some formulations are likely to be dropping palm oil on the grounds of poor environmental credentials (deforestation). This could well explain the backwards evolution of Culmak / Eco Warrior?

The T&H soap base changed initially when the Apsley range was launched, which from memory was around 2018. Caveat emptor applies to fragrances launched before this.

It's also interesting to note that T&H have released two new hard soaps in the last year or so:

T&H Mayfair
T&H Highgrove
 
Last edited:
Okay, let's go Turbo-nerd on this (@Boycie83):

Screenshot 2024-01-23 111601.png

There's a picture for you @donnie_arko

Right! Here goes ...

Dates are picked because we know (a) in 2011 The Standard Company Limited closed shop and many British triple-milled soaps went to pot! (b) 2018 is because I've found that post-2018 (ish) things changed for Truefitt & Hill ... and others.

Current Culmak is terrible and VERY similar ingredient lists are found for EcoWarrior and Czech & Speake, both of whom had perfectly good but different formulations until recently - C&S was known to be the same as Valobra while EcoWarrior remains unknown and not bearing any resemblance to any other ingredient list that I have found to date.

I have Crabree & Evelyn Mysore Sandalwood which is known good and pre-2011 (circa 1978, I believe) which we know was made by Standard. Dunno what happened afterwards (we guess Soapworks, hence the ?) but these are the brighter labelled Moroccan Myrhh and West Indian Limes, later the Nomad and Sienna soaps ... unless someone can confirm those are known-good?

T&H, TOBS and Trumpers (Oxford Blue and Officer & Gentleman) all follow the same ingredient lists over time, concurrent with Vulfix. I think the chart says it all. I have T&H? for Vulfix current offering simply because I have not yet tried it but it's the same ingredient list as current T&H. I have a query on this because I bought a tablet recently which turned out to be a dud, but on reflection I believe it is old stock and the result was co-morbid with Trumpers of that period. MWF (with additional lanolin) joined this merry band in 2023.

Trumpers ... dear Trumpers, can't you get it right like T&H & TOBS? Once made by Standard like the others, they switched to Soapworks ("Booo!") and then reformulated around 2018 (yes, just like T&H who got it right "Yayyyyy!") but still have an unlatherable soap. I've dropped Haryali in there as well since their current formulation bears a striking resemblance to the first (known) Soapworks formulation for Trumpers.

Onto DR Harris which is good. I don't have confirmed historical ingredient lists (yet) but I have found an older Cyril R Salter which is a quite different ingredient list and most akin to a LEA formulation. Go figure. That's perhaps an anomaly. Captain Fawcett carries the same ingredient list.

Floris? Dunno. The ingredient list is not (exactly) like any of the others, what with it having shea butter. Folks seems to report it's good, so I've put that in. No idea on historical (yet).

So, green is good (dark green represents good tallow), red is bad (dark red is worrying*) and amber is unknown (read: "I don't know, having not tried it"). Give or take as there will be old stock out there. "Unknown" only means unknown manufacturer, so do take note of the colour.

I put a * on the dark red because I think (from what I can glean) the current T&H ... and so TOBS, Vulfix et al is thought to be Culmak and yet Culmak's own current offering is very poor (but free of palm products) which might spell out a worrying trajectory for this class of soap.

Thoughts? Nuggets? Snippets? Can we tighten this up any more?
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom