Heineken Cup - English & French

What a load of tosh.:icon_surprised:

There are prop forwards today who run quicker than the wings of yesteryear - handling skills not as good as they used to be?

New Zealand's No 8 could probably fill any position from 1 to 15 in a team from 20 years ago.

Or are you sad to no longer see players who looked as though they had a couple of balls up the front of their jerseys - even though the didn't.
 
UKRob said:
What a load of tosh.:icon_surprised:

There are prop forwards today who run quicker than the wings of yesteryear - handling skills not as good as they used to be?

New Zealand's No 8 could probably fill any position from 1 to 15 in a team from 20 years ago.

Or are you sad to no longer see players who looked as though they had a couple of balls up the front of their jerseys - even though the didn't.
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Now Rob, you are being provocative there. I belief that there was more natural skill in the game back in the amateur days because the players had to rely on that rather than the bish-bosh of today. I am not saying the game hasn't changed - it has, some for the better, some for the worst. It is definitely faster and more physical, of that there is no doubt. But if you watch some of the classic matches of years ago the skill levels of some of the top players were wondrous - Barry John, David Duckham, Phil Bennett, Mike Gibson, Gerald Davies, Andy Irvine, Jerry Guscott, Jonathan Davies.... to name a handful. Extravagantly talented without being the gym bunnies of today.

Jon
 
My post was aimed more at the commercial impact the game has awoken but it is interesting to think of the wonderful skills of the New Zealand players who have been streamed according to their weight/size during the last few years rather than theirs age groups during their development. Perhaps the like for like training has nurtured skills development rather than "my hammer hits harder than yours" coaching view. With hookers now regularly over 6' tall the game veers towards a heavyweight contest that engages spectators more in the vein of the film rollerball rather than the game that is played by the vast majority of those affiliated to the various unions at local level.
Rugby used to be watched by people who were learning to play, do play or used to play. They could relate to what they saw. Football was watched by people who didn't play at all.
Top flight rugby is a completely different game now to what is played in the parks of amateurs. The marketing target audience has changed. That sounds like a business strategy. I'll go and watch the ladies play, I can relate to that!
 
Seamus900ss said:
And that is just the kind of insular, boorish statement that held rugby back for so many years.

I'm an inner city grammar school lad - well I was in the 1960's. I had no opportunity to play rugby at school or any connections to play out of school. Based on your comment I have no right to watch the game today - I'm condemned to watching football with the rest of my ilk. I assume the same applies to my opinions as well - not allowed to have any.

You may want to consider your views before pushing the post button in future.
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I've watched the game from the 60s right up until present day and I would say the skill levels are still there but the way the game is played today we only occasionally get to see them, biggest difference is the kind of player we are producing it's very hard to tell the Wales backline from the forwards both our wingers tip the scales at 17 stone both our first choice centers are over 17 stone our scrum half Phillips is over 15 stone, and the next generation of Wales player will probably be bigger, I think the rules need to be look at and tweaked, I think a good change would be and this would certainly speed up the game and it's entirely up to the team who have the advantage, I would let the team who have been awarded a scrum the option of either taking the scrum and having the put in or offer them a tap and go penalty if the choose.
 
Re: RE: Heineken Cup - English & French

[/quote]
And that is just the kind of insular, boorish statement that held rugby back for so many years.

Based on your comment I have no right to watch the game today - I'm condemned to watching football with the rest of my ilk. I assume the same applies to my opinions as well - not allowed to have any.

You may want to consider your views before pushing the post button in future.
[/quote]

Stamped on me pretty hard there fella. Did it feel good? For my second post that I thought could contribute something I'm feeling kinda hard done by. As a rugby coach I'll step aside for the big fish in the little pond to roam his domain.
 
Seamus900ss said:
Stamped on me pretty hard there fella. Did it feel good? For my second post that I thought could contribute something I'm feeling kinda hard done by. As a rugby coach I'll step aside for the big fish in the little pond to roam his domain.
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There are nearly 2,500 members of this site - I wouldn't call that a small pond. As far as I'm aware everyone has the same right to express opinions, ergo, no fish is any bigger than another.

As to feeling hard done by, you can either try and justify you comment or let it go - stepping aside as you call it, although I don't see that being a rugby coach is either relevant or entitles you to more of an opinion than anyone else.
 
UKRob said:
this entertaining thread.:icon_razz:
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And here's me thinking it was I who was offering the entertainment :icon_razz:

To be honest, I'm relieved to see a couple of people posting who are putting an emphasis on the rugby before the capitalism. It's way too easy to take the cold, hard, stance that everything is about business and profit. I can appreciate that clubs need to turn a profit to exist but when you want to forget about the minnows in order for you own preservation, then its not in the best interest of rugby.

Looking at the HC from the angle of a 'European' tournament and the number of teams per country, who would argue that this isn't an accurate representation ->

France 7 teams
England 6 teams
Ireland 4 teams
Wales 3 teams
Scotland 2 teams
Italy 2 teams

and if France & England had their way ???? ->

France 10 teams
England 8 teams
Ireland 3 teams
Wales 2 teams
Scotland 1 team
Italy 0 teams
 
New Top 14 TV rights deal worth over €70 million per season ->

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/top-14-tv-rights-deal-worth-over-70-204749403.html
 
Re: RE: Heineken Cup - English & French

UKRob said:
Seamus900ss said:
Stamped on me pretty hard there fella. Did it feel good? For my second post that I thought could contribute something I'm feeling kinda hard done by. As a rugby coach I'll step aside for the big fish in the little pond to roam his domain.
Click to expand...

There are nearly 2,500 members of this site - I wouldn't call that a small pond. As far as I'm aware everyone has the same right to express opinions, ergo, no fish is any bigger than another.

As to feeling hard done by, you can either try and justify you comment or let it go - stepping aside as you call it, although I don't see that being a rugby coach is either relevant or entitles you to more of an opinion than anyone else.
Click to expand...

2500 people! Wow but not even at brigade level. Whatever.
Ok I'll have a go at your points but start with what I tell my children who dwell in this new world where keyboard warriors stomp with their flamethrowers. Talk to people as if they are in the room with you. Anonymity and distance can cause insecure people to overcompensate for their shortcomings and adopt truculence in the cause of their point. Let's try and understand what the other is trying to say and ask for clarification before jumping in with condemnation or sneering. The future of any forum is to encourage people to post.

What does it mean to say that rugby has been held back? There are no more people playing now than when England won in 2003. Perhaps success is to be gauged by how many people watch it? In that case then it kind of highlights a point of how the game has changed away from playing to watching and that moves it into the realms of business models rather than audience participation. I did not know you have never played and would not think less of anyone so denied but would point out that I was introduced to Rugby at comprehensive school where the masters pointed me to the local club(where they played).
You detailing your education as if there is a snob value attached to Rugby is ironic as I think In England this has been a problem holding the game back. Most of the England players went to public school. It has been an insular world to get noticed at county level and upwards and I suspect that league professionalism has instigated change in that respect. Still there at present though with the need to perform and achieve with pro clubs shareholders concerned, active scouts should become more commonplace like in soccer.
Your remarks that infer unstated comments attributed to me that you have no rights to etc....strike me as an ungracious rendering of my words and intentions, however an earlier response about your provocative posting ideas suggest you were up for a fight.

The condescension of "I may want to consider my views before pushing the post button " is noted but would like to point out that my mention of being a coach was to infer the viewpoint of a playing strip rather than a suit. I can talk the talk, and I definitely know I can Walk the Walk.

What is the point of Rugby? To entertain others? To encourage others to participate? Both? My intention to engage with an alternative viewpoint has not been a blessing to me so far and for a newbie to the forum to be accosted in such a belligerent manner is not a credit to you. Is it normally like this?
 
@Seamuss. If you stay around for long enough maybe you will begin to judge people on the evidence of more than one thread. Statements such as keyboard warrior, insecurity and overcompensation for shortcomings appear to be you lashing out at someone you have absolutely no knowledge or experience of.

Re-read your comment - it appears to be just as moronic to me as when I first read it and nothing you posted afterwards explains or justifies it.
 
Good link James. I've just checked on the BBC Sports website and can't find anything apart from a link to the Welsh RU site. I find that really strange considering what a big issue this is.
 
I remember when he signed for my team the Cardiff Blues as a 18 year old he came from the Ospreys they let him go as they said they didn't think he was big enough to be a Pro rugby player, even though the kid was an absolutely brilliant under 16 and 18 player for Wales a real star at age grade rugby the Ospreys really lost the plot with Leigh Halfpenny, but I'm sure he will be joined by at least 3 or 4 more Welsh internationals at the end of the season, It won't harm only improve Wales at international level but will be damaging at regional level.
 
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