Moderation Discussion (branched from Nishy's Farewell Thread)

jb74

jb74

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Bechet said:
What's to discuss? Leave this thread for tributes to Nishy, get back to talking about shaving, take your grievances to Admin. It's that simple!
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Membership have decided they want to have a debate on the topic. I think it's an important debate, could help shape a better future for the forum if ALL concerned parties are willing to take on-board the varied opinions of others and factor some lee-way into their thinking.
 
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Unfortunately, moving this post here is almost 2 days too late and all the content that should accompany it is in the other thread. I don't think @Nishy has any objection to the discussion occurring on his farewell thread. The context was far more relevant over there.
 
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There's a couple of things here - membership haven't decided anything, you have. Second, this isn't the democracy you seem to think it is. Admin started TSR seven years ago. They set the rules and with those rules have created what is widely accepted as the best shaving forum on the planet. Those rules are in place right now.

You want a mature discussion - I've started a thread for you. All and any inflammatory posts will be removed. Any name calling of me or anyone else will be removed.

Admin probably won't read this thread - but they may. They leave monitoring of the forums to the mods. What Admin read are reasoned PMs sent to them - which is why they and I keep banging on about taking your grievances to them. I've
started this thread in 'Feedback' to increase your chances of being read. Admin are busy doing all the work that you never see, with software and board maintenance, paying the bills, de dah.

The floor is yours ...
 
The floor is yours ...
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My thoughts...

There are some good moderators on this site. The right people doing a good job.

I totally support moderation when it is administered in a fair, correct and respectful manner. I appreciate that sometimes; some situations don't warrant this level of care and attention e.g. the situation that occurred last night.

I don't want moderation to be confused with censorship.

I want moderators who can separate the role of moderation from personal preference. You're acting on behalf of a community of members, not just yourself and the way you want things run.

I'd like to see more clarity in terms of what rules have been broken, especially when you have good guys like Nishy and UKRob being (IMO) unfairly treated.

I'd really like to see the right members chosen for the moderation role. Members with a history of volatility are never a good choice.

I'd like to see things like common sense and communication prevail over dogmatic thread deleting.

I'd like to think that mods can listen, learn and change when necessary.

http://communityanswers.com/responses.asp?ID=99

Finally, I'd like to feel I have the liberty to reply directly to a couple of misconceptions that you've stated above, but I really don't see the point at this stage as they'll probably end up in limbo.
 
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I'll join in then.

Thing is JB74...As Bechet says, a Forum isn't a Democracy. It's run on the wishes of the owner and they set the rules. Members join having read the rules so are essentially agreeing to abide by the rules. Don't agree don't join. What we're seeing right now is people disagreeing and leaving the Forum (two people so far it seems which isn't many), which is their right. The bit that seems to be causing most aggravation is this bit of the rules...

''You agree that The Shaving Room have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit.''

That sort of allows the mods to do whatever they want for whatever reason, with no explanation required. It's the rules see and the owner must be OK with it. So 2 members have left. Which isn't much. Now there's a whole load of Members who want the Forum to be a Democracy. But it ain't and none are. That's Internet life. Personally I think the way some posts have been removed stinks but hey ho. I'm not going to try to change Boabs mind because he's obviously not going to change his mind. Some folks are having trouble accepting that though.

I could write more in depth but it would get get deleted. The above though superficial, is true though and not subject to change unless the owner changes it. It's his Forum and all Forums are Dictatorships.
 
Yep, I agree with you Dave. But common sense tells me that a forum is nothing without it's members and there has to be some give and take, especially when it comes to some of the good, good folk.

What makes a forum special in terms of how it is run is the right people, doing the right things at the right times and using common sense, good communication, good temperament and respect rather than this dogmatic, fixed, black and white interpretation of how things have to be.
 
I say the 'good good folk' should be treated like anyone else, in this case maybe badly but dogmatic, fixed, black and white is how all Forums are. This rule though...

''You agree that The Shaving Room have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit.''

does allow for differences in behaviour by mods as they have different personalities. It reminds me of Section 69 of the Army Act 1955, which basically allowed charges to be made against someone who hadn't necessarily broken any other Army law, and was very much open to interpretation by the officer sticking the boot in. But then the Army isn't a Democracy either.
 
jb74 said:
Yep, I agree with you Dave. But common sense tells me that a forum is nothing without it's members and there has to be some give and take, especially when it comes to some of the good, good folk.

What makes a forum special in terms of how it is run is the right people, doing the right things at the right times and using common sense, good communication, good temperament and respect rather than this dogmatic, fixed, black and white interpretation of how things have to be.
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Awe this Barrack Room Lawyer Malarkey isn't Doing the Forum Any Good..There are a Good & Bad Shaving Forums Out there..TSR is Not the Worst for Getting Moderated..If You Started a Thread like this in Even the Most Liberal Forums It Would Get Deleted & You Would Probably be Asked to Leave..:)

If You have any Problems with TSR which l am Not Suggesting there is None..You Should take it Up as an Individual with the Appropriate People in Private & Discuss it Like a Gentleman Instead of Airing You're Grievance's in Public View..:p

Now..That's Common Sense, Good Communication, Good Temperament & Respect..:D

Billy
 
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@Dave-the-rave

At the end of the day, yep it may not be a democracy, but giving feedback is not against the rules as they are written.. and that's all that this is.

The forum can change... for good or for worse, and as a member I'm trying to challenge the status quo based on my own feelings on the matter. It might all fall on deaf ears, or it might make people stop, sit back and think a little... who knows. Didn't the forum arise from people looking for change?

@Fergiebilly

The thing is, I'm not the only person who feels this way. We've seen at least a couple of similar threads pop-up recently. This is just a debate at the end of the day, others have expressed views similar to mine and others not so similar.

I can admit to being a bit emotionally high a couple of days ago, but I'm calm now. I just want to put my feedback out there for others to see and read other's opinions. Personally I think it's better for the forum, if you want to at least try and influence change, that you do so taking on-board the views of a broader group.

Anyway... I was given the floor, I've been given the opportunity to say what I want to say and that's that. Nobody is obliged to read or care about a single jot if it ;-) Some might prefer if people just upped and walked rather than actually try and give some feedback... less work I guess.
 
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In 7 years only one member has, to my knowledge, been banned. And many other members felt he should have been removed way earlier. Two well liked and respected members have chosen to leave. And ... that's about it. The rest of us are still here, rattling our gums and airing views and opinions which would be tolerated on few other forums. Apart from the inevitable challenges presented by its' success TSR seems to me to be still battling manfully onwards as an oasis of sanity ( well, relatively speaking ) in an oftentimes deranged online world. Maybe if we all, rather than ' other people ' just eased off a bit and let the dust settle we can return to the entertaining, informative place we all chose to join. Dave is correct. You own the field, mark it out, provide the ball and the touch judges ... You get to referee the match.

JohnnyO. o/
 
JohnnyO said:
In 7 years only one member has, to my knowledge, been banned. And many other members felt he should have been removed way earlier. Two well liked and respected members have chosen to leave. And ... that's about it. The rest of us are still here, rattling our gums and airing views and opinions which would be tolerated on few other forums. Apart from the inevitable challenges presented by its' success TSR seems to me to be still battling manfully onwards as an oasis of sanity ( well, relatively speaking ) in an oftentimes deranged online world. Maybe if we all, rather than ' other people ' just eased off a bit and let the dust settle we can return to the entertaining, informative place we all chose to join. Dave is correct. You own the field, mark it out, provide the ball and the touch judges ... You get to referee the match.

JohnnyO. o/
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Absolutely spot on . + 10
 
Would it not hurt to have some reason as to why posts are deleted? Surely in the long run this would reduce the amount of posts needed for moderation, giving moderators time to enjoy the forum more. Doesn't this make more sense? Based on observation I think that the forum moving forward would be to not have to delete posts, creation of threads like this and people leaving.
 
JB-74 wrote -- I want moderators who can separate the role of moderation from personal preference. You're acting on behalf of a community of members, not just yourself and the way you want things run.

Couldn't agree more I've had post's deleted by a mod purely down to the fact he didn't agree with me, that sort of moderation shouldn't belong on any forum .
 
Fox said:
Would it not hurt to have some reason as to why posts are deleted? Surely in the long run this would reduce the amount of posts needed for moderation, giving moderators time to enjoy the forum more. Doesn't this make more sense? Based on observation I think that the forum moving forward would be to not have to delete posts, creation of threads like this and people leaving.
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I take the point Foxy, however I do feel that the causes of deletion are best dealt with in pms rather than in threads which then expand as others jump in to air their own real or perceived grievances. As someone who was paid to frequently ( though unwillingly ) arbitrate in disputes of varying natures I know only too well the difficulties of defining ' reasonable ' to two aggrieved parties. Mostly it just seemed to degenerate into more entrenched positions as each kept rehearsing and rehashing their point of view. So challenging to part time moderate a forum of thousands from varying cultures, atitudes and where English is often not a first language. I have deliberately tried not to pass comment on the rights or wrongs of any of the deleted posts or comments; however I can only say that over the past 5. Or 6 months I have felt that some posters have been, possibly unintentionally, pushing the envelope of what are already very loose limits. And no, since thus is a personal judgement call I have no intention of listing a series of posts demonstrating what I mean. Now, of course, unless we settle down an atmosphere of conflict and looking to find fault is going to poison the atmosphere of a really fun place to chat about a mutual interest online.

JohnnyO. o/

PS High time Southsea Spray was reappearing in some form or another, I've only got about a years worth remaining !
 
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