MWF Reformulation? Yes! Again!

pjgh

pjgh

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Over here: https://www.theshavingroom.co.uk/community/threads/tobs-sandalwood-reformulation.59402/ ... I said: "With what appears to be a completely new formulation starting to appear, it's doubtful that those who reformulated recently (meaning T&H and certainly MWF who moved onto their formulation) will adopt it, but you never know ... there's hope for Trumpers."

I spoke to soon ...

Check out: https://www.theenglishshavingcompan...-wool-fat-shaving-soap-ceramic-dish-125g.html

Sodium Palmate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Laurate, Potassium Laurate, Glycerin, Palm Kernal Acid, Parfum (Fragrance), Potassium Palm Kernelate, Titanium Dioxide, Lanolin, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Gluconate, Hexyl Cinnamal, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Limonene, Linalool

Notice Sodium Laurate & Potassium Laurate which kinda give this set of reformulations their most noticeable feature, but also Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate replaces Pentasodium Pentatate, which was outlawed by the EU at the beginning of December 2023.

How has this changed? Well, here's MWF's reformulation ingredient list from last year:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua, Potassium Stearate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerin, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Palm Kernel Acid, Parfum, Sodium Chloride, Lanolin, Titanium Dioxide, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentesodium Pentetate, Sodium Gluconate, Tetrasodium EDTA & Limonene

... alas, tallow has not made a return.

I think the only other thing to say here is that I think what we're seeing here is the next T&H formulation ... just like Captain Fawcett gives us a hint of the next formulation that we'll see for DRH ... and TOBS Sandalwood has indicated that they're on board with this kind of formulation.

Check your outer boxes, guys! Has anyone bought this latest formulation?
 
... and Scottish Fine Soaps new flavour Thistle & Black Pepper (whose existing soaps are on a formulation highly related to T&H ... and MWF):
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Palm Kernelate, Potassium Stearate, Glycerin, Sodium Laurate, Potassium Laurate, Parfum (Fragrance), Palm Kernel Acid, Titanium Dioxide, Sodium Chloride, Carthamus Tinctorius, (Safflower) Seed Oil, Linoleic Acid, Sodium Gluconate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Oleic Acid, Palmitic Acid, Silybum Marianum Extract, Potassium Sorbate, Sodium Benzoate, Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate, Stearic Acid, Citronellol, Coumarin

The other flavours still read as:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Stearate, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Glycerin, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Palm Kernel Acid, Parfum (Fragrance), Cannabis Sativa (Hemp) Seed Oil, Titanium Dioxide, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Sodium Gluconate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Limonene

... again, I think we're seeing Scottish Fine Soaps future formulation.
 
pjgh said:
I think the only other thing to say here is that I think what we're seeing here is the next T&H formulation ... just like Captain Fawcett gives us a hint of the next formulation that we'll see for DRH ... and TOBS Sandalwood has indicated that they're on board with this kind of formulation.
Click to expand...

... and T&H have confirmed that their Highgrove and Mayfair soaps are on a new formulation which reads basically the same as this latest MWF reformulation, which to my mind confirms that their supplier is the same. T&H tell me that Apsley, which is she-enriched, will gain a new (related) reformulation in maybe 4-6 weeks.

Again, has anyone bought this latest MWF formulation?
 
NatJag said:
I may have to further stock up on DRH which I'm particularly enjoying at the moment. Just incase. Although, the new formulation may be better.
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It does look like a reformulation across the board - if you check my Bluffers' Guide, at the moment you'll see we're just waiting to see what DRH do and exactly what Floris do next which I think will be the same as T&H's shea-enriched formulation. Trumpers, C&S and Culmak all have formulations at present which do not have Pentasodium Pentetate and that seems to be the trigger, so they may not reformulate at the moment ... but if the snowball has gatherered enough pace, they may well want in. Fingers crossed, as that would add some real gems to the hard soap market that we've not been able to enjoy for some time as present formulations are absolute duds.

There was a short discussion on ATG about DRH and I put that I have a general feeling that any new formulation will indeed be better since (a) tallow is likely to remain, given what we can see with the related/offspring soap under the Captain Fawcett brand; (b) stearate is being ramped up the ingredient list order in these new formulations that we've seen so far - this is a good thing! I double-checked my reasonably recently purchased Captain Fawcett but it is the slightly older formulation that matches current DRH, so I've yet to actually try any of these new formulations.

Of course, for some time, given the array of resellers there may well be existing stock sold for some time and even the previous generation (pre-2018 ish) old stock still kicking around. When Tabac or MWF moved onto the palmate formulation, stockists like Connaught were quite explicit about which stock they held - so far, with MWF's new new (2024) formulation, I've only seen The English Shaving Company and Bullgoose (US) displaying the freshest ingredient list.

I guess the short of it is ... if you want to stock up, now is the time to do it but you may well get the newest formulation; conversely, if you're after the newest formulation it may be prudent to wait as any purchase now may well end up as existing stock.
 
pjgh said:
It does look like a reformulation across the board - if you check my Bluffers' Guide, at the moment you'll see we're just waiting to see what DRH do and exactly what Floris do next which I think will be the same as T&H's shea-enriched formulation. Trumpers, C&S and Culmak all have formulations at present which do not have Pentasodium Pentetate and that seems to be the trigger, so they may not reformulate at the moment ... but if the snowball has gatherered enough pace, they may well want in. Fingers crossed, as that would add some real gems to the hard soap market that we've not been able to enjoy for some time as present formulations are absolute duds.

There was a short discussion on ATG about DRH and I put that I have a general feeling that any new formulation will indeed be better since (a) tallow is likely to remain, given what we can see with the related/offspring soap under the Captain Fawcett brand; (b) stearate is being ramped up the ingredient list order in these new formulations that we've seen so far - this is a good thing! I double-checked my reasonably recently purchased Captain Fawcett but it is the slightly older formulation that matches current DRH, so I've yet to actually try any of these new formulations.

Of course, for some time, given the array of resellers there may well be existing stock sold for some time and even the previous generation (pre-2018 ish) old stock still kicking around. When Tabac or MWF moved onto the palmate formulation, stockists like Connaught were quite explicit about which stock they held - so far, with MWF's new new (2024) formulation, I've only seen The English Shaving Company and Bullgoose (US) displaying the freshest ingredient list.

I guess the short of it is ... if you want to stock up, now is the time to do it but you may well get the newest formulation; conversely, if you're after the newest formulation it may be prudent to wait as any purchase now may well end up as existing stock.
Click to expand...
I purchased my last DRH in the store on Piccadilly. That looked like it had been on the shelf quite some time when I looked at the box later later. I because of the MWF first reformulation, I did ask if they were considering it. The chap said there weren't, but of course, would he have know what could be going on behind the scenes.
 
pjgh said:
Nice one @ATG - that is the new new formulation. Enjoy! Do you have a point of reference against the 2023 reformulation which this has replaced? Oh, and where did you buy from? I don't want to make a purchase to find I get old stock.
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Purchased from Connaughtshaving, great service as always.
First time when using MWF so unfortunately no reference to previous iterations. If it wasn't for 'Fat-February' I don't think I would have considered this soap and boy what a mistake that would have been.
 
pjgh said:
Nice one @ATG - that is the new new formulation. Enjoy! Do you have a point of reference against the 2023 reformulation which this has replaced? Oh, and where did you buy from? I don't want to make a purchase to find I get old stock.
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How do you think the new one might perform? In addition to the lauric acid, the stearic acid is in the first few ingredients listed. I find it usually makes a difference, but I don't have the insights to explain why!
 
donnie_arko said:
How do you think the new one might perform? In addition to the lauric acid, the stearic acid is in the first few ingredients listed. I find it usually makes a difference, but I don't have the insights to explain why!
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No expert by any means, but my understanding was confirmed by Mr Wickham. The ingredients are in order of volume and once you get to Parfum, that's about it in terms of formulation and everything afterwards is a lubricant, surfectant or scent fixative.

What I'm tracking in these new formulations (which all appear to have a very common make-up) is that potassium laurate and sodium laurate are making a first appearance in shaving soaps, although from a google is could well just be a new way of expressing "coconut fatty acids" ... nevertheless, the presence of these two ingredients are the DNA (if you like) of this epoch of formulation. Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate replaces Pentasodium Pentatate, which was outlawed by the EU at the beginning of December 2023 and that helps us date the formulation going forwards as post-2023 (so, 2024 on once they've hit the shelves).

Many of the palmate-first formulations (most of which came about when many moved from tallow to palmate or even stearate to palmate some time in the 2000s) have now ceded to a stearate-first formulation, which we do know is certainly not a bad thing. Stearate-first makes for a very good shave lathering experience. Tabac went first, was it 2021? Speick followed suit with practically the same formulation also in 2021. Edwin Jagger & Muhle appear to have moved over, again, to a very similar formulation through the autumn. So, those of us why enjoy the veg Tabac (I'm certainly impressed by it and don't mourn the loss of tallow) will have a very good indication of how the new MWF (and British triple-milled, generally) will perform going forward.

... and when it got the British Cartel, the formulation does seems to want to remain palmate-first, but stearate has ramped up the ingredient list and so I fully expect that this latest MWF will be better than last year. I believe MWF (and SFS) follow the T&H standard and this is borne out in the ingredient list for their new Highgrove & Mayfair that were release late last year - MWF is very close but with the addition of magic, I mean Lanolin.

I must say that I have yet to try any of these new formulations but I am actually very excited to given that I think I've settled on British triple-milled as "my thing" when it comes to soaps. I'll bag a new MWF first, I think. Great to hear it's from Connaught's @ATG as they're probably my go-to - thanks for that. I'll pop an order in with good confidence. I hope you enjoy yours.

TLDR? Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate and the presence of Potassium Laurate & Sodium Laurate is a very good indicator that this is a 2024 onwards formulation. Stearate is either first or high in the ingredient list, which is known for a good shaving lather experience. This all bodes well for British triple-milled.

... oh, and I don't see any reason why DRH will move off tallow, given that Captain Fawcett's latest still shows as a tallow soap and I believe they are strongly related to DRH in the way that MWF & T&H appear to be. Alas, I don't hold out hope for C&S or Trumpers whose current laughably crap shaving soaps don't have Pentasodium Pentetate in the ingredient list and so no impetus to change. But, given everyone else has I do hold a glimmer of hope that my empty Eucris bowl may get yet house a soap again.
 
pjgh said:
No expert by any means, but my understanding was confirmed by Mr Wickham. The ingredients are in order of volume and once you get to Parfum, that's about it in terms of formulation and everything afterwards is a lubricant, surfectant or scent fixative.

What I'm tracking in these new formulations (which all appear to have a very common make-up) is that potassium laurate and sodium laurate are making a first appearance in shaving soaps, although from a google is could well just be a new way of expressing "coconut fatty acids" ... nevertheless, the presence of these two ingredients are the DNA (if you like) of this epoch of formulation. Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate replaces Pentasodium Pentatate, which was outlawed by the EU at the beginning of December 2023 and that helps us date the formulation going forwards as post-2023 (so, 2024 on once they've hit the shelves).

Many of the palmate-first formulations (most of which came about when many moved from tallow to palmate or even stearate to palmate some time in the 2000s) have now ceded to a stearate-first formulation, which we do know is certainly not a bad thing. Stearate-first makes for a very good shave lathering experience. Tabac went first, was it 2021? Speick followed suit with practically the same formulation also in 2021. Edwin Jagger & Muhle appear to have moved over, again, to a very similar formulation through the autumn. So, those of us why enjoy the veg Tabac (I'm certainly impressed by it and don't mourn the loss of tallow) will have a very good indication of how the new MWF (and British triple-milled, generally) will perform going forward.

... and when it got the British Cartel, the formulation does seems to want to remain palmate-first, but stearate has ramped up the ingredient list and so I fully expect that this latest MWF will be better than last year. I believe MWF (and SFS) follow the T&H standard and this is borne out in the ingredient list for their new Highgrove & Mayfair that were release late last year - MWF is very close but with the addition of magic, I mean Lanolin.

I must say that I have yet to try any of these new formulations but I am actually very excited to given that I think I've settled on British triple-milled as "my thing" when it comes to soaps. I'll bag a new MWF first, I think. Great to hear it's from Connaught's @ATG as they're probably my go-to - thanks for that. I'll pop an order in with good confidence. I hope you enjoy yours.

TLDR? Tetrasodium Iminodisuccinate and the presence of Potassium Laurate & Sodium Laurate is a very good indicator that this is a 2024 onwards formulation. Stearate is either first or high in the ingredient list, which is known for a good shaving lather experience. This all bodes well for British triple-milled.

... oh, and I don't see any reason why DRH will move off tallow, given that Captain Fawcett's latest still shows as a tallow soap and I believe they are strongly related to DRH in the way that MWF & T&H appear to be. Alas, I don't hold out hope for C&S or Trumpers whose current laughably crap shaving soaps don't have Pentasodium Pentetate in the ingredient list and so no impetus to change. But, given everyone else has I do hold a glimmer of hope that my empty Eucris bowl may get yet house a soap again.
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Thanks the reply Paul. I can't remember who said it here (was it planofman?) who said something along the lines of most of his favourite soaps had stearic acid in the first three ingredients. It's one of the ingredients that goes towards creating a slightly thicker lather.

The new MWF I have suspicions might have a touch more cushion than the last tallow free one which was still very good.
 
Yes, it was he. Working down my list of soaps and noting the primary ingredient, I concur. Thicker lather.

Meanwhile, I find the creaminess of palmate (especially when well loaded onto a boar) to be a very enjoyable thing ... and something I particularly like about the style of British triple-milled. My hope for the new formulation is that MWF might regain that quite legendary yogurt-thick lather which is far more time consuming with the 2023 formulation.

Using the palm version on Thursday, then the tallow on Friday I was first almost undone by just a little too much water but with some rapid lathering reminded just how thick that stuff could be.
 
Never before have I been so interested in the ingredients of shaving soap! Re 2024 reformulations - did others come before? I have so many soaps, I've been able to travel back to a 2014 Tiki (tallow) soap I have - chock full of stearates and cocoates. A bit of research indicates that laurates and cocoates are both largely derivatives of lauric acid - the fatty acid of coconuts. Note, also, the presence of lanolin, which means I can use this in Fat February ...

Tiki.jpg
 
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