Phoenix Soaps: "Douglas Smythe" aka Erik Coates any good.

[Hossyhossyguy]

I been reading some big big gossip about this fella on Badger and blade. Is this guy a producer of quality stuff and soap or is his stuff as bad as everyone said. I actually thought Smythe was a real person. I don't know why he has to pass himself off as someone else.

In general is American soap worth buyin if you are in the UK? This guy have fancy packaging but are contents good?

 

[Bezoar]

most American "artisan' soap, is well just soap with a fancy label.

I guess you can ask yourself, if you took a stick of Palmolive, Erasmic, or Arko, and put a picture of a pretty tree and waterfall on the package, would it shave any better?

The "idea" of the American soap is essentially, the pretty picture makes it shave better. A lot of fellas cant tell the difference between the 20 dollar tub of "American artisan soap" and an unlabeled tub of proraso.

 

[Mr_Smartepants]

His real last name is "Hodges", not Coates. There was a big scandal about what was actually in his soaps when he first started HTGAM. Then he got caught shilling his own products with LOTS of fake forum accounts. He actually 'interviewed' himself!
I'll never buy anything that has his companies (HTGAM, PAA, PPF, CK, etc.) names on them out of principle.
Feel free to choose your own path though.

(Long history...): http://shavenook.com/showthread.php?tid=26192

 

[Vespasian1]

I like his soaps and aftershaves. The balms tends to get runny when temp is high, unlike the other ones I have.

For me his products are good, a bit steeper compared to, let's say Stirling (which is better value).

The shenanigans are unfortunate though. It is a turn off.

 

[Darkbulb]

His real last name is "Hodges", not Coates. There was a big scandal about what was actually in his soaps when he first started HTGAM. Then he got caught shilling his own products with LOTS of fake forum accounts. He actually 'interviewed' himself!
I'll never buy anything that has his companies (HTGAM, PAA, PPF, CK, etc.) names on them out of principle.
Feel free to choose your own path though.

(Long history...): http://shavenook.com/showthread.php?tid=26192

+1 to all of that including the own path stuff.

 

[Mr Bigmem]

+1 to all of that including the own path stuff.

1+

 

[Dai Boy]

I have some of his soaps but I was unaware of the stuff mentioned by @Mr_Smartepants above!

I must say though that I find his soaps excellent in terms of scent and performance. I must admit though that the above revelation will make me think about buying any more!

 

[Darkbulb]

I have some of his soaps but I was unaware of the stuff mentioned by @Mr_Smartepants above!

I must say though that I find his soaps excellent in terms of scent and performance. I must admit though that the above revelation will make me think about buying any more!

It does bring up a somewhat interesting, potential discussion -
"How much does your overall perception of a vendor/maker influence your purchase?"

I managed a part of P&G before they acquired Gillette and remember deliberately never buying ANY Gillette products as they were one of the last companies in the industry that did final-product testing on animals. Later they did institute a moratorium on that though (that I have no idea how well they kept up over the years) and I felt 'better' about buying their products.
Obviously there's always three sides to a story; "his, hers and the truth" but what matters is how you yourself perceive a brand/company/maker - regardless of if it's always based on facts.

 

[Leisureguy]

I find both Phoenix Artisan soaps and the Crown King line he also makes to be excellent. Some seem to confuse producer and product, but I think the products are quite good. I also like his aftershaves and some of his razors (e.g., the Double Open Comb, a resurrection of an antique design).

Take a look at ingredients, always. Phoenix Artisan soaps:

Potassium Stearate, Glycerin, Potassium Cocoate, Aqua, Potassium Kokumate, Sodium Lactate, Potassium Shea Butterate, Potassium Castorate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Avocadoate, Parfum [Fragrance]
​

Crown King:

Potassium Stearate, Glycerin, Potassium Cocoate, Aqua, Potassium Kokumate, Sodium Lactate, Potassium Shea Butterate, Potassium Castorate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Cocoa Butterate, Potassium Avocadoate, Parfum [Fragrance]
​

I particularly like the sound of his season Crown King soap Blue Samhain Seasonal Artisan Shave Soap - Sandalwood, Burnt Sugar, Oakwood, Bourbon, Pumpkin.

People vary in how well they can detect differences: some can detect no differences at all between different brands of blades, while others find the differences obvious. In this forum, I did a poll on whether people who had given a slant a fair trial could detect any improvement in the shave from a slant vs. a conventional razor. About half detect an improvement with the slant and about half do not—for the the slant shaves just the same as a conventional razor. And so it is with soaps: some cannot detect any difference between a mediocre soap and a high-quality soap, while to others the differences (lather quality, fragrance, effect on skin) are obvious.

As always, it's good to experiment and see what works best for you.

 

[flobberdob]

It does bring up a somewhat interesting, potential discussion -
"How much does your overall perception of a vendor/maker influence your purchase?"

I managed a part of P&G before they acquired Gillette and remember deliberately never buying ANY Gillette products as they were one of the last companies in the industry that did final-product testing on animals. Later they did institute a moratorium on that though (that I have no idea how well they kept up over the years) and I felt 'better' about buying their products.
Obviously there's always three sides to a story; "his, hers and the truth" but what matters is how you yourself perceive a brand/company/maker - regardless of if it's always based on facts.

For me that brings up an interesting moral point about Gillette. I like my vintage gillette's, presumably when these were developed they may have been tested on animals or been part of a product stable that used animal testing. By buying vintage am I condoning the past use of animal testing?

 

[Darkbulb]

For me that brings up an interesting moral point about Gillette. I like my vintage gillette's, presumably when these were developed they may have been tested on animals or been part of a product stable that used animal testing. By buying vintage am I condoning the past use of animal testing?

Almost philosophical in nature and as such - 'only you know the answer'

For clarification purposes: The animal testing that I was aware of was on the s/w side of their business - i.e. shaving cream, after shave, etc.

 

[MPH]

Always avoided products from this guy due to all the bulls### that follows him about. There's plenty of other soaps to buy, from people with seemingly better ethics.

 

[Mr Bigmem]

I find both Phoenix Artisan soaps and the Crown King line he also makes to be excellent. Some seem to confuse producer and product, but I think the products are quite good. I also like his aftershaves and some of his razors (e.g., the Double Open Comb, a resurrection of an antique design).

Take a look at ingredients, always. Phoenix Artisan soaps:

Potassium Stearate, Glycerin, Potassium Cocoate, Aqua, Potassium Kokumate, Sodium Lactate, Potassium Shea Butterate, Potassium Castorate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Avocadoate, Parfum [Fragrance]
​

Crown King:

Potassium Stearate, Glycerin, Potassium Cocoate, Aqua, Potassium Kokumate, Sodium Lactate, Potassium Shea Butterate, Potassium Castorate, Sodium Stearate, Potassium Cocoa Butterate, Potassium Avocadoate, Parfum [Fragrance]
​

I particularly like the sound of his season Crown King soap Blue Samhain Seasonal Artisan Shave Soap - Sandalwood, Burnt Sugar, Oakwood, Bourbon, Pumpkin.

People vary in how well they can detect differences: some can detect no differences at all between different brands of blades, while others find the differences obvious. In this forum, I did a poll on whether people who had given a slant a fair trial could detect any improvement in the shave from a slant vs. a conventional razor. About half detect an improvement with the slant and about half do not—for the the slant shaves just the same as a conventional razor. And so it is with soaps: some cannot detect any difference between a mediocre soap and a high-quality soap, while to others the differences (lather quality, fragrance, effect on skin) are obvious.

As always, it's good to experiment and see what works best for you.

http://howtogrowamoustache.com/how-...eature-interview-with-leisureguy-michael-ham/
Seems you know Douglas or Eric very well. you'll know doubt know about the ingredients list scandal. so its hard for folk to trust anyone thats gone down so many dodgy roads. heck at one point he is said of had so many puppet accounts no one knew who was real or a fake. so forgive me if I buy else where

 

[MarkB]

The guy seems like a total asshat from what I have read. No reason to go near him with such good and honest little producers here.

I'm with you matt. No need to take risks with my skin with someone can make a bigger percentage filling it with cheap crap ingredients. My custom stays with @phoenixandbeau @OSP and Wickhams

Leppard - Spots.

 

[JohnnyO]

I'm with Mark, having seen waay too many skin clinics over the years. I like to know I'm using good, safe ingredients in what I apply to my skin and actively want to support makers who share my concerns about skin health.

JohnnyO. o/

 

[Leisureguy]

@matteob - I think you beef is with advertising, not with marketing. Marketing, as I understand is, involves a good understanding of the market (the potential customers, who may be individuals or families or businesses or governments or the military, etc.) and exactly what they need and what they want (often different things). The marketing person basically translates those needs and desires into product specifications, trying to be both creative and price-competitive. The key is to make a product at a reasonable cost that will allow for competitive pricing and will satisfy/please/delight the customer.

Once the product is made, it must be communicated in a way the potential customers can understand and appreciate exactly what the product does: its benefits, its advantages over competitors, and any tradeoffs that would be wise to point out. It works out best if the customer understands exactly what the product delivers in terms of operating cost, use life, functionality, and so on. The last thing a marketing person would want is for the customer to buy the product with a poor understand of what the product delivers, for that usually results in an unhappy customer, a return (if possible), and negative word of mouth.

I grant you that there are products that are all sizzle and no steak, as it were, or that present a false picture through advertising but there are also products that are quite solid, accurately described, and pleasing to the purchaser.

Slamming marketing in general because some marketers choose to use misleading or content-free advertising is seems like judging people in general based on the actions of the worst of humanity.

Full disclosure: I worked in marketing in various ways—as the director of admissions for a college with an unusual curriculum (so that my efforts were to explain the content of the program and how it benefited the students, and then let the prospective student decide whether that is the program s/he wants), as a marketing director for a library automation software package (again: clear communication of what was being purchased, which generally involved some training), and product marketing manager for a software company that developed and sold C compilers. What you describe is pretty remote from my activity.

Marketing seems an essential part of product development and selling, but it is neither of those things.