Why would you want to watch football?

I like nearly all sports, and what surprises me is that it's nearly always the supposedly more gentlemanly rugby supporter who has an aloof view of other sports fans, especially football followers.

If we're talking massive hits though, I like some hockey, players moving at up to 30mph makes for some good contact:

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzOuTf8q8b0[/video]
 
Canuck said:
I like nearly all sports, and what surprises me is that it's nearly always the supposedly more gentlemanly rugby supporter who has an aloof view of other sports fans, especially football followers.
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You are absolutely right there - I work with a bunch of hardcore rugby union fans and they do take a very superior / holier than though position over football fans. But I live near Twickenham and I see very little difference in the quality of behaviour (or lack thereof) of the rugby lads when I have to share a train with them and the football fans I more regularly mingle with. It's all the same - there are good fans and there are pillocks. Both sports have their fair share.

But from a purely sports perspective - I think that all three are great games (football, league and union.) I'm an Oldham Athletic fan and an occasional watcher of Staines Town (Latics being my hometown team, Staines being my current local side) so I suppose that means I prefer Football - I'll watch it right down to non-league level.

Rugby League (Oldham Roughyeds, of course) I can watch and enjoy down the leagues as it tends to remain a fast and mobile game.

Rugby Union, I tend only to enjoy internationals and top-flight games (but I do enjoy them.) Predominantly because I lose interest when it descends into a rucking and mauling, clogging kind of a game. (To me) It's the sporting equivalent of a dirge. However, I'm sure that's a familiarity thing - I didn't grow up with union, so the finer points probably elude me.

Hockey I know nothing about, but I've got a friend from New York with a broken nose and busted knees and he's always telling me I need to get into it!
 
So I read Chopper Harris and think it's probably one of the most considered posts in a long time. Initially, I assumed that he would be a Chelsea supporter and therefore from the SE area. However, once he starts talking about Rugby League, I start to take notice and know that that's not likely - he must hail from the North. I know this because only people from the North have nothing better to do than watch Rugby League.

How two apparently similar games (RU and RL) can differ so much is beyond my comprehension - believe me I'm not trying to wind anyone up, but I would not watch RL if it was the last thing available - it's a supreme example of how to take the soul out of sport in the name of professionalism.

This is of course just my opinion - I refuse to include IMHO.
 
UKRob said:
So I read Chopper Harris and think it's probably one of the most considered posts in a long time. Initially, I assumed that he would be a Chelsea supporter and therefore from the SE area. However, once he starts talking about Rugby League, I start to take notice and know that that's not likely - he must hail from the North. I know this because only people from the North have nothing better to do than watch Rugby League.

How two apparently similar games (RU and RL) can differ so much is beyond my comprehension - believe me I'm not trying to wind anyone up, but I would not watch RL if it was the last thing available - it's a supreme example of how to take the soul out of sport in the name of professionalism.

This is of course just my opinion - I refuse to include IMHO.
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I thought we were over this 'North\South' divide rubbish years ago.

I'm not particularly a huge rugby fan (though I do occasionally watch) and probably have a preference to Union.

Oh, I'm from Sheffield too so what does that do to your prejudiced views? You'll probably be absolutely flabbergasted to know I don't wear a flat cap or have a whippet either.

Get over yourself. Unless you enjoy winding people up I suggest you think hard before posting something so arrogant next time.
 
The behaviour I see from a lot of RFU fans at Twickenham puts me off enduring the traffic jams to and from and the ticket prices. I'm always surprised and wonder where these fans come from. My conclusion is that they are from local clubs because that is how RFU ticketing works. That said, their behaviour is never as bad as that of the soccer Saints fans I see on the train, returning from a London game.

The real comparison for me is in Leicester - between a Tigers home game and the rare occasions when Tigers and Foxes both have a home game. For a Tigers match, you will see a very few police men and women directing traffic and fans at busy intersections. If Foxes are at home too, there are black marias in ranks, helicopters, hundreds of police men, police dogs and police horses.

Now, I'm not taking a superior position over soccer fans but I am noticing the different police responses and draw an inevitable conclusion. The typically older rugby fan is better behaved than the typically younger soccer fan. I avoid soccer crowds and avoid unruly behaviour.

Ever read a news report about racist chanting from a rugby crowd?
 
Tall_Paul said:
No arguing there Carl. Don't the opposition rugby fans intermingle without any problems too?
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One of my favourite away games is at the Stoop., not least because we traditionally give them a hiding (they got their own back in the Final, though). I can usually find a single seat smack dab in the middle of the center-line block - full of season ticket holders most of whom are life-long supporters, it seems. I have a ball taking the mick, shouting support of the ref when he gives a penalty against them, cheering successes of Tigers' scores, heavy hits, de dah. And they have a ball doing it back to me.

Of course fans are inter-mingled. Of course alcohol is consumed in the stands, which are all seated. Of course we laugh and joke together and congratulate fans of the winning team. It's a game and we are there to enjoy the game and ourselves and each other. Loads of women, loads of kids, even babies - it is safe at a rugby match. For the spectators, anyway.
 
Bechet45 said:
One of my favourite away games is at the Stoop., not least because we traditionally give them a hiding (they got their own back in the Final, though). I can usually find a single seat smack dab in the middle of the center-line block - full of season ticket holders most of whom are life-long supporters, it seems. I have a ball taking the mick, shouting support of the ref when he gives a penalty against them, cheering successes of Tigers' scores, heavy hits, de dah. And they have a ball doing it back to me.

Of course fans are inter-mingled. Of course alcohol is consumed in the stands, which are all seated. Of course we laugh and joke together and congratulate fans of the winning team. It's a game and we are there to enjoy the game and ourselves and each other. Loads of women, loads of kids, even babies - it is safe at a rugby match. For the spectators, anyway.
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And that's exactly the way it should be isn't it. What a shame football isn't like that.
 
My own view on the rugby/football fan differences is that rugby fans in England have generally been middle class and football fans have generally been working class. Working class lads have spawned a succession of cultures down the years - all with links to football, music, fashion and violence.

Believe me, if Polo was played at inner-city schools as much as football, and was as accessible to your average young man then there would have been Polo hooligans on the front page of the Sun.
 
joe mcclaine said:
My own view on the rugby/football fan differences is that rugby fans in England have generally been middle class and football fans have generally been working class. Working class lads have spawned a succession of cultures down the years - all with links to football, music, fashion and violence.

Believe me, if Polo was played at inner-city schools as much as football, and was as accessible to your average young man then there would have been Polo hooligans on the front page of the Sun.
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That's a very fair point, I'm sure that must have a lot to do with it.

Interesting though that rugby league is a working man's sport too though and (though I've never been) I don't believe that has a problem with crowd violence (though I might be wrong).

Football always seems to have had a problem with violence. I just found this on Google about football hooligans in the Victorian era!
 
Tall_Paul said:
I thought we were over this 'North\South' divide rubbish years ago.

I'm not particularly a huge rugby fan (though I do occasionally watch) and probably have a preference to Union.

Oh, I'm from Sheffield too so what does that do to your prejudiced views? You'll probably be absolutely flabbergasted to know I don't wear a flat cap or have a whippet either.

Get over yourself. Unless you enjoy winding people up I suggest you think hard before posting something so arrogant next time.
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Tall Paul. My tongue was very much in my cheek when I posted - obviously not far enough for you to notice. Believe me I'm much nearer to Sheffield than London and have known for quite a long time that flat caps fell out of fashion some years ago.

I apologise to you and anyone else who found the post arrogant - it certainly was not intended to be.
 
joe mcclaine said:
My own view on the rugby/football fan differences is that rugby fans in England have generally been middle class and football fans have generally been working class. Working class lads have spawned a succession of cultures down the years - all with links to football, music, fashion and violence.

Believe me, if Polo was played at inner-city schools as much as football, and was as accessible to your average young man then there would have been Polo hooligans on the front page of the Sun.
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I think that is a pretty good summary of many people's opinions and I won't disagree with it. Relative affluence levels are a factor.

I would also draw on the fact that aggregate attendances in the English football leagues (including the Welsh teams playing in them) are in excess of 37 million compared to less than 2 million for Rugby Union. The actual numbers of arrests at football games (about 3,000 in 2010) work out at pretty low levels - less than 1 per match on average and in fact over 70% of matches played have no arrests.

Sometimes, the perception amongst people who don't go to football matches is that we're still stuck in the 80's but in reality it's moved on significantly. To respond to Carl's point about hearing about football racism in the news - fair enough, the question's still out on John Terry, but from the fans' perspective I think we've generally moved on. Most teams have black or asian players and I'm not sure anyone even notices race any more. My team's division (League One) had no arrests for racism related offences in the entire 2010-11 season.

If I was playing devil's advocate, I could contrast the racial makeup of the England football team against any of the home nations Rugby Union teams. However, I'm not doing that as I don't believe it's useful or valid to call a sport (or any single section of society) as racist. Some people are. Most people aren't. Football is watched by more people than any other sport in the UK, therefore more racist people will attend. More non-racist ones will too, but somehow that statistic isn't interesting.



UKRob said:
I apologise to you and anyone else who found the post arrogant - it certainly was not intended to be.
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I didn't, I was too flabbergasted to have written something someone thought was well considered. Took me 10 minutes to pick myself up off the floor. Or was that tongue in cheek too! Thanks goodness - normal service resumed :)
 
UKRob said:
Tall Paul. My tongue was very much in my cheek when I posted - obviously not far enough for you to notice. Believe me I'm much nearer to Sheffield than London and have known for quite a long time that flat caps fell out of fashion some years ago.

I apologise to you and anyone else who found the post arrogant - it certainly was not intended to be.
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Ah, in that case I take back my retort (which was pre pot of tea, hence caffeine withdrawal crankiness!)

You should have chucked a :icon_wink: at the end of your post. The problem with the written word is it's so easily misconstrued.

As long as it's all in jest that's fine and no offence taken. :)
 
Well the game of Northern union which is what rugby league was called when it broke away from the middle class game of rugby union, formed in 1895 and run by a largely working class sector from the North of England went down the road of professionalism, but never followed or copied the yobbish culture of it's other working class Brother namely football, I played Rugby and watched rugby all my life, my both sons played, when both my sons were teenagers i would have absolutely no problem letting them walk into a bar full to the raffters of Liecester tiger supporters Wasp Sale or any other English french or any other rugby playing nation, and would expect a great welcome and a good night out, but if this were a bar with opposing football supporters well i think we would probably be in casualty, when football supporters can attend the same pubs and bars and drink inside the ground during the game then i will hold my hand up and say yes it's taken sometime but football as finally arrive in the civilized world. Another thing crossed my mind thinking of the many differences between football and rugby supporters, now i'm friendly with a ex pro retired footballer, who happens to be quite high up in international football and as a important legislative roll for many years, and remember something he told me, he said that he believes that most proffesional football players today would be in prison if they couldn't kick a ball.

Jamie.
 
pugh-the-special-one said:
when football supporters can attend the same pubs and bars and drink inside the ground during the game then i will hold my hand up and say yes it's taken sometime but football as finally arrive in the civilized world.
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Not sure I agree that drinking inside the ground during the game is especially a mark of civilisation :wink:

However, regarding the rest, head over to Brentford FC and have a drink in any one of the pubs on the four corners. Great fans who enjoy chatting to the opposition (especially in the Griffin)

Try the Greyhound close to Boundary Park for a similar welcome.

I go back to my previous statement - you can't judge an entire sector of society based on the actions of some.
 
I think Vinny may not be a million miles off the mark when he said, " rugby fans in England have generally been middle class and football fans have generally been working class" but I believe he is still very wide of it.

In my experience, rugby fans come from a rich mixture of socio-economic backgrounds and we sit jammed together, united by a love of the game.

Fans of my age and thereabouts may well have attended a grammar school and would undoubtedly have been taught the game there but working class kids went to grammar schools as well as middle class. I think we'd need to look at IQ to see from where a fan base is drawn as well as the ability of parents to send their kids to a private, rugby playing school.

Venture into The Shed and tell 'em they are middle class or the Crumbie terraces (oops! I lied earlier - sorry) and very few would agree. Mind, I'm told that the IQ in The Shed is not high due to west country breeding habits but I can't believe that is true.
 
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