J W Meeson and Sons

Arrowhead

Arrowhead

Messages
3,266
Location
West Yorkshire
... of 148 Neill Road, Sheffield. Ring any bells with anyone? I've drawn a blank on this one (two actually) with the usual lists, but the business directories mention a butchers' suppliers of that name based in Bradford which has been defunct for 60 years.

I'll post pics of the razors in due course, but it went all Stygian round here mid afternoon and I can't be doing with the light box malarkey.
 
Well, it was a long shot. The photos are a bit rough and ready. First one:

Meeson.jpg


The next looks quite a bit younger to me:

MeesonRing1.jpg


It's rather nicely turned out, with tidily executed jimps on top:

MeesonRing2.jpg


Last of this batch:

VES.jpg


There's something not quite right about this razor, it's too shiny on the tang and has coarse blunt jimps on the underside as well as on top. We'll see how it hones, then I'll take a view on whether to restore it properly.
 
Hello Andy,

I found several instances of that 'butchers outfitters' called J W Meeson & Sons in Bradford, dissolved 1951, and also a Jas. Meeson who was a shoe knife manufacturer and who lived in Langsett Rd, Sheffield - but he could have had business premises elsewhere.

The most promising reference that came up was this:

"...Alan Meeson from Bradford
Hi most of my relations came from SHEFFIELD my fathers side via Gainsborough and Hull and my mothers side via York. My grt grand father was a cutlery manufacturer and all the family were in the trade , my grandfather moved to Bradford in retail cutlery, my father stayed for awhile working as a blade grinder, then he too moved to Bradford and opened a grocers shop and he was in that business for the rest of his life I must confess that when i first started tracing my family i found a distant relative in Canada Elaine Pickard and she does a lot of work for the Sheffied genealogy site ,and i must thank her for all the help she has given me Regards Alan Meeson, Bradford..."

Note that this is from a chap who lives in Bradford, so it looks right! The 'blade grinder' reference could even refer to James...

Regards,
Neil

UPDATE: after submitting this I thought of googling 'James Meeson, and came up with a James William Meeson, cutlery manufacturer, 1849, Sheffield - http://www.ancestral-villages.co.uk/vview.php3?category=Sheffield(Sheffield)&placename= - too good to be a coincidence!
 
Splendid stuff Neil, many thanks. The razor in the first picture looks like quite an elderly one, so I guessed that the name had a fairly long run. Strange that the two should turn up together, really.
 
There are people who maintain that they know the answer, and others who say that it is open to conjecture. In the absence of anything from the 'horses mouth' or in black and white or patent law, I suppose it can only be conjecture...

The first extreme hollow grinding originated in Germany, and used a double-wheeled grinding machine. At that time a lot of english blades and steel were sent there to be ground as they had the leading edge technology, so 'Ground in Germany' (or Hamburg) acquired a certain cachet.

Full hollow ground blades make quite a bit of noise in use, and extra hollow ground blades were said to ring or 'sing' - hence the equivalent 'singing blade' for an extra hollow ground razor. Why Hamburg became synonymous with the words 'grind' and 'ring' rather than Solingen - which is about 250 miles away - is a bit obscure, but could be explained by the fact that in the 19th century it was europes third largest port and at the beginning of the 20th century it became a gateway for travel to america and home of the worlds largest transatlantic shipping company. There were certainly a lot of razor makers in Hamburg, but there were more in Solingen. Some say the hollow-grinding machine was made in Hamburg.

Some refer to a 'ring of cities' around Hamburg, which seems a bit like clutching at straws to me and merely an attempt to justify the name by some sort of back derivation.

The technology didn't stay in Germany though - a lot of razors were ground in Sheffield and even english ones that were ground in Germany at some point in their history ended up being ground in Sheffield as Sheffield gained supremacy over Solingen. This gave rise to a few anomalies, like blades with 'Ground in Sheffield' on the tang and "Hamburg Ring' on the blade. Attempts were made to cash-in on the popular term, such as "The Sheffield Ring," "The True Ring," "The Silver Ring," and others.

Giesen & Forsthoff acquired the name as a brand - they are a german company of some pedigree and history, and even they don't know the origin of the term. The real answer is shrouded in the mists of time...

Regards,
Neil
 
This subject does get batted around quite often, can't say I'm much the wiser though. My two "Ring" razors are comparatively wide bellied hollows, and both are stiffer than you might think going by appearances. The Electric one is actually rather quiet, but it sounds like the Meeson will sing a bit. Maybe it's just a descriptive term for blades of that style.
 
That could well be so, Andy. I have read somewhere that the 'hamburg grind' refers to the type of hollow with the stiffening belly just before the second hollowing immediately above the bevel - perhaps that got confused with 'hamburg ring' at some point.

Without a double-wheeled grinding machine that could be fitted with different diameter wheels like the ones that originated in Germany that sort of thing would nigh on impossible from a practical, money-making point of view using single stones and grinding one side at a time.

Like you, most of the old hamburg ring razors I have had have been relatively thick in profile, like the old Sheffields which say 'extra hollow ground' that look more like modern half-hollows - maybe we have to try and see the thing as it was in its time period.

Regards,
Neil
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom