6 Nations 2013

[pugh-the-special-one]

I think you are spot on there Rob, I know for a fact the four Welsh regions are really struggling to compete financially and there are serious issues about keeping most of our best players playing in Wales, we have wage caps and no more than 3 non Welsh qualified can play for our regions, the only real move would be for the WRU to centrally contract the entire Welsh team, Welsh supporters don't like the Rabbo Pro direct league we play in with the Irish Scottish and Italian, as most of our better players play so few games, and I know for sure the four Welsh regions would much prefer to play in the English premiership.

Jamie

 

[Bechet]

It could be because I am a Tigers supporter and Tigers have a very large wallet but we - the Tigers supporters - have made sure that Tigers have a playing field that makes it tough to beat them. If you want a level playing field, I suspect you'd need to revert to amateur status. If you want a professional playing field, you need to buy tickets to the game and turn up in replica shirts as well as recording it on Sky or ESPN.

He with the biggest wallet wins? He with the biggest, most loyal fan base has the biggest wallet. Having said that, we get to the final every year but have only won three out of eight (mainly because we have played in all the other finals because we have a huge wallet because we have a huge, loyal fan base).

So the question in Wales would seem to be: why don't more fans buy more tickets. But as you point out, Jamie, Owen Williams is going to play in the English Premiership - so Wales will not be unrepresented.

I'd really like to see the Wales team that beat England a few days ago have a crack at the Tigers who beat Saints on Saturday. That would be a match worth buying a ticket to witness!

 

[pugh-the-special-one]

Well Carl the way the Ospreys are playing at the moment I would fancy them against most teams, they are a team on fire at this present time, shame they are not playing in the Heineken cup.

Jamie.

 

[Dr Rick]

Re: RE: 6 Nations 2013

He with the biggest wallet wins? He with the biggest, most loyal fan base has the biggest wallet.

That may or may not be true in rugby at the moment, but it's certainly not true in many, if any, big-money sports currently, where it's about hugely rich hobbyist owners. Though sometimes causality goes the other way, success breeding affection as it tends to.

The systems of salary caps used in the NFL and NBA are reasonably successful at limiting periods of dominance, and together with drafting mean that the fields is kept fairly level. But do British fans actually want that? I suspect not.

 

[Bechet]

... the Ospreys .... are a team on fire at this present time, shame they are not playing in the Heineken cup.

Jamie.

Now there, Jamie, I definitely have to disagree! We have to climb a steep enough hill as it is!

 

[UKRob]

It could be because I am a Tigers supporter and Tigers have a very large wallet but we - the Tigers supporters - have made sure that Tigers have a playing field that makes it tough to beat them. If you want a level playing field, I suspect you'd need to revert to amateur status. If you want a professional playing field, you need to buy tickets to the game and turn up in replica shirts as well as recording it on Sky or ESPN.

He with the biggest wallet wins? He with the biggest, most loyal fan base has the biggest wallet. Having said that, we get to the final every year but have only won three out of eight (mainly because we have played in all the other finals because we have a huge wallet because we have a huge, loyal fan base).

Carl, I can't disagree that Leicester's comparatively big fan base has helped them to be a dominant force in both amateur and professional eras - what I was bemoaning is the likes of Toulon buying up major names from all over the world. In the same vein, Scarletts having to let go of George North is another example - the fact is that Northants can offer a bigger salary - the player has stated he's happy at the club but between them, Scarletts and the WRU are unable to find a way of underwriting his cost. That's what I meant when saying that regional rugby in Wales will find it difficult to survive and compete - especially in the big money competition.

 

[pugh-the-special-one]

Pretty much spot on Rob, and the real reason why Welsh regional teams have not been able to compete with English French and Irish clubs, as they simply do not have the money to bring in so many world class international players giving them powerful squads, for example lets take Jamie Roberts who plays for my team the Cardiff Blues, he's also a contracted Welsh international, during the autumn internationals and the six nations all the regions lose all their Welsh internationals and won't see them again till the six nations is over, Jamie Roberts played 3 matches for the Blues last season, this also happens to the English French and Irish but when you look at their squads this as very little affect because they are full of overseas international players that we simply cannot afford, but what I will say is the four regions apart from the Ospreys who's number 9 is a fantastic Samoan scrum half all the other key positions in the regions are filled by young Welsh players making the Welsh coaches job very easy when he comes to select a team.

Jamie

 

[UKRob]

Jamie, during the 6 Nations, I read an article in which the French were moaning that the influx of foreign players was already having an impact on the French squad and was likely to get worse. They actually applauded the English Premier clubs for limiting the number of overseas players. I hate to be parochial but when you look at the way English football has gone you have to say that maybe a limit is sensible in the long term. I also have a pet theory that it could help reduce the pressure on salaries - the scramble for good overseas players drives salaries up, so reducing the number of places available doesn't reduce the numbers available so perhaps they would accept lower wages?

 

[pugh-the-special-one]

I do think the French have gone a step to far, and now they are beginning to feel the effects of no limit on overseas players, the English premiership seem to have a better balance, I now for sure there is a call for the top thirty players in Wales to be centrally contracted which will be a good move in my opinion, since the onset of regional rugby in Wales, in the 10 years since they were set up we have won 3 grand slams and one championship, the regions are not well supported in Wales purely because most knowledgable rugby supports in Wales realise under the regional set up Wales on the international stage are strong, but the regions themselves are only there to make up the numbers, but I think one or two of those teams could produce a powerful enough squad to have a serious chance in the Heineken cup in the next few years, makes you wonder when teams like Tulon can leave two players like Gethin Jenkins and Matt Giteau sitting on the bench most games.

Jamie

 

[Bechet]

Here's a question to consider: what is the difference in structure between the Irish regional set-up and the (existing) Welsh regional set-up? The one seems to produce a large fan base and generates lots of money whilst the other does not, even though they are both based in largely rural - or thinly populated, anyway - countries.

The WRU can re-arrange the deckchairs yet again but will achieve little until the supporters start spending money. One fantastic Wales team will not generate money week on week, now, will it?

I liked Tigers best when they used a greater percentage of home-grown, risen via the academy, talent - but commercial pressures force them to use outside players (beyond Birmingham). After all, winning is the end game.

 

[pugh-the-special-one]

Well Carl I would say the main difference between the Irish a Welsh set one the Irish have been regional teams for more than 100 years and Wales were forced to create a regional set up 10 years ago even today there are many rugby supporters in Wales who simply will not support them, the Irish blueprint after 100 years as gradually evolved into a good system, and they have more funding and money to spend on players, take Ulster two years ago they were pant's someone gave them a pile of cash now they have some of the very best southern hemisphere players pulling the strings, also most of the Irish regions have always employed top southern hemisphere coaches who come with a large price tag, in Wales we have 4 homegrown coaches, also before Munster and Lienster won the Heineken cup they were also had poor attendances, Wales is all about making Wales powerful at international level, Irish rugby looks good in European Heineken cup rugby, but if you took out all their overseas stars they would struggle in my opinion, Welsh regional rugby is purely a development program which even though I don't like it, I cannot criticize the fact it's really working well for Wales at international level.

Jamie

 

[UKRob]

Here's a question to consider: what is the difference in structure between the Irish regional set-up and the (existing) Welsh regional set-up? The one seems to produce a large fan base and generates lots of money whilst the other does not, even though they are both based in largely rural - or thinly populated, anyway - countries.

The WRU can re-arrange the deckchairs yet again but will achieve little until the supporters start spending money. One fantastic Wales team will not generate money week on week, now, will it?

That is a good question Carl - I just checked the Rabodirect website to take a look at attendances but could find nothing. The other thing to take account of is that a big chunk of money comes to the clubs from the National Associations and I guess that with all of them (apart from Italy) playing a similar number of home games each season, the revenue available would also be broadly similar. So I don't see it as such a straightforward issue as getting more bums on seats - I still hold to the view that 'benefactors' are playing an increasingly important part - and it's that which is driving the big Welsh names to leave their regional clubs.

 

[Bechet]

But to get a powerful international team, does not Wales need to start at grass roots level - or as near as it can get with its regional teams - to develop players and generate cash?

My grandson wants to be a drummer star in a rock band but he's too busy to practise and/or join a band of his peers because they are not good enough.

 

[pugh-the-special-one]

I had to put this one in for Antad, my old dog Bluey, this ones for you Tony I hope it doesn't spoil your tea.

Jamie.