Shavette or Straight

Andybaldybilly said:
Simple question, Straight or Shavette for a newbie?
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Hmm, well, a straight is an investment and pays off much more in the long run. However, the shavette is cheaper and cuts out all the stropping and sharpening.

That said, you don't need to strop a straight or sharpen it for a long time when you first start out. As to the cost, honestly, you can probably recoup more of the initial cost of the straight razor than you can from the shavette. Unless you break it.

So, from at least my perspective, there seems to be no reason to buy the shavette. However, plenty of people say they prefer the shavette. It might come down to being able to have an absolutely fresh blade every 5 days v. having a very very very slowly declining straight razor.
 
joe mcclaine said:
asharperrazor said:
That said, you don't need to strop a straight or sharpen it for a long time when you first start out.
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I thought daily stropping was essential?
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You can go rather many shaves without, especially with a fresh edge. I would strongly recommmend to wipe the razor from soap and water remains though. Of course it's better to strop after every shave (or before), but it actually can be as bad for a newbie to strop as not to strop :D since it's a learning curve on stroping aswell and you can round your edge rather fast if you press to hard or draw the razor with presure on the edge instead of the back ...
 
I was hoping that the staright was going going to be more forgiving, what I didn't say was that I have tried a shavette twice and nearly cut my head off both times (OK a little exaggeration but you get my point). So my next question is what recommendations can you give me for a first purchase straight, I am guessing that something new rather than collectable?
 
People often think there is little difference between a straight and a shavette, actually they are very different animals.

Pro's

Straight will hold its resale value better.
Straight is more forgiving of poor technique.
No stropping or honing with a shavette.
Straight doesn't require blade replacement.

Con's

Shavette has little or no resale value (in general).
Sooner or later you will have to purchase stones and a strop with a straight.
Shavette will cut badly with careless or poor technique.
Shavette needs replacement blades.

To my mind the straight is a much better bet.

Talk to Neil Miller, or look at Invisible Edge website, or talk to some of the guys on here who are very knowledgeable about straights, and would probably sell you a very decent one at a good price. Don't buy a cheapy from ebay, they are made of very poor quality steel and won't hold an edge.
 
Andybaldybilly said:
So my next question is what recommendations can you give me for a first purchase straight, I am guessing that something new rather than collectable?
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Not necessarily you can get a good vintage for less than a new one and most new ones aren't really shave ready from the factory. Tazz has one for sale, might be worth looking at otherwise have a word with Neil Miller of The Strop Shop.
 
joe mcclaine said:
asharperrazor said:
That said, you don't need to strop a straight or sharpen it for a long time when you first start out.
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I thought daily stropping was essential?
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Nope. All it does is prolong the edge of the razor. Of course, it is practically essential, but if you don't do it, your razor isn't going to blow up or anything. It'll just need honing more often.

As for razor recommendations...

Either a Wacker or TI if you want new, but that is a HUGE feet first leap into the deep end. So, I'd go for either the basic Dovo if you NEED new, or for more value, buy a restored straight razor. Sadly the supply inexpensive restored straights seems to be drying up as I write this so, I cannot say with certainty that you will be able to find one cheaper than the Dovo.
 
asharperrazor said:
Andybaldybilly said:
Simple question, Straight or Shavette for a newbie?
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That said, you don't need to strop a straight or sharpen it for a long time when you first start out.
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?????

Leighton - you should be calling yourself 'A Blunter Razor' giving out advice like that.

Why fly in the face of convention? If that sort of thinking had any merit, learner drivers would be told that they didn't have to bother with changing gears for a long time, just stay in first - an equally preposterous recommendation.

If you have strong stubble it seriously misaligns the edge. Even if you don't have stiff whiskers, the edge will still be deformed after shaving - countless tests, some using high magnification, prove this. The razors decline will be rapid and noticeable to those who know what to expect from a freshly stropped razor - you might get some decent shaves out of it, but no way is it going to last for a 'long' time.

You might get away with not stropping a few times, but for a 'long' time? I seriously doubt it. I notice the difference if I don't strop the razor before a shave, and I haven't got particularly tough bristles.

If you are a novice contemplating using an open razor for the first time, I'd forget that particular piece of nonsense if I was you. Start as you mean to go on and learn it properly, not piece-meal. That applies to who you listen to, as well.

Regards,
Neil
 
One more thing, and I know I have said this before so I won't repeat all the details, but I don't particularly recommend cheap Dovos, nor the third-party razors re-badged by shaving companies with their own name that were probably made by Dovo.

One large English establishment has stopped stocking these basic Dovos branded with their own initials because of quality control issues, mainly warped spines and/or poor grinds. Another equally large English shaving company regularly sends me new Dovos that have issues and which customers have been unable to hone.

If you absolutely have to buy one of these - and there are good ones, you just have to be lucky - at least try to examine it in person. Lay it on the counter so spine and bevel touch at the same time and see if you can see light under it, then flip it over and try the other side. If part of the bevel touches the flat counter top on one side, and the ends that didn't will touch it on the other side when it is turned over, pass on it. Alternatively take a dead flat straight edge, like a small stout steel rule, and carefully lay it along the spine to check for bows and warps. Pass on any that show this fault.

Finally, don't expect it to be shave-ready, unless they have an in-house honer who hones every razor before it is sold. They are generally not shave-ready out of the box, so you will have to factor in the cost of posting it away to be honed at the going rate. Give me a decent vintage straight razor any day over one of these cheaply made modern basic razors. They knew what 'quality' meant in the old days.

Regards,
Neil
 
Hmm. A family member recently asked me to sort out a razor so that he could dip his toe in the water, and what I told him was that he'd be lucky to get three sweet shaves out of it without stropping. Far, far better to start stropping after the first shave, so I'm in agreement with Neil. My first bit of advice therefore would be that you must budget for a serviceable strop from the outset - not a fancy one because it will most likely pick up some nicks.

Secondly, I come down squarely on the side of vintage razors, if only because they tend to represent much better value for money. Sure, it's possible to shell out a lot on one of the more collectable names like Dubl Duck, Filarmonica, Wade & Butcher or whatever, but a modest reconditioned razor supplied shave ready may well set you back less than £50 and is likely to be an absolute bargain. There are no new razors on the market that I know of which come close to the quality at that sort of price, and then there's the cost and inconvenience of getting them honed.

Finally a word on Dovo. I own a cheap one (my only modern factory made razor), and it's excellent. I must have been lucky, but it's a good modern take off of a classic Solingen full hollow, quite cleanly finished and the geometry is correct. You should definitely subject these razors to intense scrutiny as Neil advises, but to reject the brand out of hand is a little harsh in my opinion. You're still better off with a restored vintage blade though.

Oh yes, I nearly forgot. Shavettes are a completely different animal, and I really don't see much in common between one of those and a forged straight. I'd say that the chances of accidentally severing a major blood vessel with the latter are vanishingly small, but I'm not at all sure that the same could be said of a Shavette ...
 
Neil Miller said:
If you have strong stubble it seriously misaligns the edge. Even if you don't have stiff whiskers, the edge will still be deformed after shaving - countless tests, some using high magnification, prove this. The razors decline will be rapid and noticeable to those who know what to expect from a freshly stropped razor - you might get some decent shaves out of it, but no way is it going to last for a 'long' time.
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I've never seen or heard of these tests, can you share?

Also, we can tell the difference between a sharp razor and a dull razor. A newbie cannot. A simply fact us veterans constantly seem to forget. We also seem to be able to tell extremely minute differences in the shave.

In addition, you can strop on your palm, newspaper, belts, etc etc. A strop is a piece of leather in the end. Do nice leathers make the edge slightly more enjoyable? I think so. But again, not something a newbie would notice.
 
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