Shavette or Straight

[Neil Miller]

If you have strong stubble it seriously misaligns the edge. Even if you don't have stiff whiskers, the edge will still be deformed after shaving - countless tests, some using high magnification, prove this. The razors decline will be rapid and noticeable to those who know what to expect from a freshly stropped razor - you might get some decent shaves out of it, but no way is it going to last for a 'long' time.

I've never seen or heard of these tests, can you share?

You have been doing this for how long and never come across Verhoeven? Or J. G. Pratt's definitive photos putting an end to the saw-teeth theory?

Other articles that may be of interest:

Popular Mechanics - Keeping Your Razor Sharp
Bart's Stropping A Straight Razor
And From Milady's Standard Professional Barbering, Newest Edition (5), to get back to the original purpose of my post in this thread:

There are plenty of other articles online - I hear there is a very good resource for finding things called 'google'

Some of the studies, like Verhoeven's, include DE and SE blades as well as open razors (all three in Verhoeven's case - as well as different types of strops including a revolving leather strop which is of less interest to us, but he also used an 8" barber strop) and knives. The thing that matters is the effect on the edge, particularly the damage and deformation that is shown to occur from shaving just once.

Regards,
Neil

---

A strop is a piece of leather in the end. Do nice leathers make the edge slightly more enjoyable? I think so. But again, not something a newbie would notice.

Yes, and a razor is a piece of steel.

A beginner may not notice the difference in strops made from very similar, quality leathers, but he will sure as hell notice that a cr@p strop is not working. Most people tell me that they notice a huge difference between leathers like hard cowhide (like cheap Ebay strops of eastern origin) and quality latigo, bridle and cordovan - even if they have not had much practice.

'Nice' is probably not the word to use - what we are talking about is the degree of edge refinement imparted to the razor. If you can feel a difference on your face, that's all that matters. Most quality leathers used for strops fall within a very narrow band of edge-refinement, and for everyday purposes there is no difference between them with regards to what they do to the razors edge. One may feel 'nicer' than another to any one person in use, and some (precious few) will have some detectable difference at the shaving stage.

Regards,
Neil

 

[lordjohn]

OK, I'm going to put a different slant on this (no pun intended). Say you are having difficulties with a straight (like what I am!). The usual array of errors may be present but one is that the razor is not shave-ready or the edge has been spoiled by inappropriate attention to stropping etc. If you obtain a shavette then presumably one can assume that at least the edge is at an optimum. So shave with the shavette and if all goes reasonably well then one can assume that indeed the edge of the straight has been spoiled.

Also why is the shavette significantly more dangerous that the conventional straight?

Cheers

 

[pugh-the-special-one]

Not a easy one to answer really, I have the feather artist club SS shavette, I personally love it and feel fairly comfortable using it, but if your technique is not spot on with that razor and your are a little nervous dont even pick it up, because you definetly will cut yourself, I would say if you are serious about getting a straight then be prepared to put in the leg work and learn how to strop and maybe buy a finishing stone because after all it's a big commitent but also a rewarding one when you get it right, the choice is yours.

Regards Jamie.

 

[Johnus]

My experience is if you're going to start with a shavette type razor, start with one that has a 'guard'. The half blade one will very quickly slice up your face if your not careful and experienced. Also based on experience Don't think that just because your shaving well with a Guard you can move right into a bare blade. It did and it took 2 wkd to recover. It'll cut you up before you know it. And that was a Derby. Can't imagine what would have happened with a Feather!! True confessions are a b - - - h!

 

[Arrowhead]

Also why is the shavette significantly more dangerous that the conventional straight?

The following is theoretical and based on not much more than some basic trigonometry and a lot of experience with cutting myself with a wide array of sharp things. It's enough to persuade me, however, not to let a Shavette anywhere near my face:

The cutting angle of a straight razor is dictated by the thickness of the spine at the point where it rests on the stone, and the width of the blade (give or take a layer of tape or so). This generally works out at something in the region of 18 to 20 degrees. That's a pretty thin, delicate edge, comparable to something like a paring chisel reground and sharpened for fine work in softwood, to put it in the terms I understand best (Jamie will know what I'm getting at here).

Some time ago I measured the cutting angles of a few modern DE blades, again by taking the thickness and the bevel length. The results were utterly consistent: 9.5 degrees. That's a phenomenally attenuated edge (well beyond anything used in the woodworking trades), and it's small wonder that they're only good for three shaves on average. The blade experiences very low resistance from the whiskers because of the drastically reduced wedging action, making the blade very efficient but also prone to damage and, most relevant here, decidedly likely to take a dive into the skin if it's presented at too steep an angle. Even a slight increase will result in a cut. These blades were intended to be used in a handle with a safety bar so that they cease to cut when the angle of presentation is exceeded, hence "safety razor". Ditch the bar and they're unsafe.

The short version: leaving aside my feeling that the finish on modern DE edges leaves a lot to be desired, a conventional straight gives you a lot more leeway and is more forgiving of occasional cack-handedness. You can certainly do a lot of damage with a cut throat (the clue's in the name), but the cutting angle is sufficiently obtuse that you at least shouldn't go too deep unless you're really trying.

Hope that's helpful.

 

[lordjohn]

Well thanks Andy, that is most interesting..

 

[shanky887614]

i started with a shavette, well it was a really cheap one that came as a kit for £10 with razor, 30 double sided blades,brush,soap and 20 stepic matches

i dont know how they make any money on them the brand was barberblades


i shaved with the shavette for a few months before being gifted with a straight razor for my 18th birthday.

i dont think id like to use a shavvete again, after a striaght razor it feels like trying to shave with a kitchen knife

they are a lot more awkward to use than straight razors