Stove top espresso tips.

lloydedwards said:
Hi pedro083,

"where the coffee is is not where the water is heated lloyd so cant see how the temp will increase at this point, and how this being pressurised actually has a bearing."
Put your finger over the end of a bicycle pump and press. It is why a pressure cooler cooks quicker - it gets hotter.
Lloyd

cooker not cooler
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Do you know I had actually wrote out and explained all the problems with the bunch of drivel you wrote but I have realised it is wasted as if you did not get it the first time you never will,
Lay off the drugs and the glue, or maybe get your glasses replaced as there is something serious wrong with you logic, oh and please if you quote someone take everything that is in the context that is relevent

Like the rest of my last post
but espresso machines also operate with a temperature gauge/thermostat so the water temp will be what it is set to be no matter pressurised or not. a moka pot is also pressurised so water will be above boiling and steam will be higher as generated at boiling point but will increase in temp when pressurised and still exposed to heat(hence the reason you use at lowest heat) so steam coming off rolling boil pot 100 from anything with any amount of pressurising can and will be greater(this is not hard stuff mate) would love to know where you got your half assed answers about steam being at same as boiling. you are probably right 95 is the middle of road temp that should work well with most coffee some will taste better hotter some colder, no one said other wise. 95 wont work with any grind as the rate of flow will give either a lot of under extraction and loads of volume or over extraction and hardly any volume the temp is not going to affect this

Please feel free to explain how my statement of the heat of steam was incorrect and you did not know where I got my information
 
lloydedwards said:
Hi pedro083,


NB Reason to use moderate heat under Bialletti is to reduce the direct dry heating of the grounds by conduction up through the sides of the pot. There is a finite limit as to how quickly the water can heat.
Can someone with an ology help me out?
love'n'joy
Lloyd

cooker not cooler
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My reasoning for not using a rapid boil is so you dont under extract, considering the coffee holder has no contact with the base other than the lip and it's sitting in water I'm not really convinced the grounds will be heated up prematurely or adversely.
 
Moka (bialetti) are pressurised - it is what sends the water upwards - BUT the water isn't, as it is open to the atmoshere. You should remove the pot from the heat before the noise (steam) rises to the coffee.
Insulting me does not make you clever - anyone can do that.
Being mistaken doesn't make you stupid - refusing to learn does that.
 
lloydedwards said:
Antdad, are you saying espresso machines make bad coffee?
Lloyd
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lloydedwards said:
Hi Pedro83,
Espresso machines operate at pressure WHERE THE COFFEE IS. Therefore the temperate of the water will be higher - much higher. I'd be fascinated to know where you got the misleading information about the temperature of steam. Also water boils at 100c only at sea level, plus add it to coffee at ambient temperature and that will not be 100c.
Most of this would appear to come from an often misused research quote about ideal temperature being 95c. THIS WAS THE COMPROMISE TEMPERATURE - ie the best temperature for a fixed temperature machine for using ANY grind, ANY type of bean and ANY roast. ie, least likely to be screwed up by untrained staff, rather than more expensive trained baristas. I don't have the research paper extract, but I do know it is misquoted all over the net with no source given. Given that tongues are like fingerprints (no two the same), cultural taking of coffee changes, mineral content of water changes etc etc.
I love the exchanges about coffee and its paraphernalia here, ribbing included, but physics is physics - and I don't believe in creationist coffee or we wouldn't have the variety.
love'n'joy
Lloyd
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so what you are saying that is if something operates at presuure the temp magically is higher due to the pressure even though you are operating at below boiling point (due to thermostat control) and have generated no steam.(you get the part about thermostat control, how can it higher when pressurised as that is the temp you are measuring when pressurised) Please provide some thing to back up this big and very bold statement that you have made then changed and tried to blur the edge of as the discussion went along by changing subject and only choosing to answer specific parts of questions
 
It's desirable to have temperature stability throughout the espresso shot for consistency, the temperature doesn't spike at the group head because it isn't static, grinds are soluble and porous. If anything domestic machines have trouble maintaining the right temperature throughout the shot because of their limited boiler capacity and control systems which is why folks like modding them and temperature surfing.
 
As you can imagine in espresso machine geekdom, temperature profilers are alive and plenty...

http://www.home-barista.com/hx-love-brew-temperature-profiles.html

http://coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/155722
 
I don't know why I'm surprised there's a coffee forum given I'm talking on a shaving forum!

I'm glad to have stimulated a discussion with such strength of feeling!

I took a few points on board today:
* only filled the water to just below the steam vent.
* didn't tamp the grains, merely levelled it off.
* medium heat and gas off when the gurgling started.

I'm not sure it tasted any different, maybe my palette will improve....
 
Question: with the free standing expresso maker the steam does not touch the coffee? Right? it's only the regulated set temp hot water that makes the expresso?

With the stove top. It's hit or miss with an exact water temp? Of does the pressure valve kind of control the temp of the water that goes through the coffee?
Thanks
 
The pressure valve is just that, a saftey device to remove excessive build up rather than a temp regulator, you want to avoid the last gasp splurge of water and steam that comes at the end of the brew cycle which is why the concensus is to shut it off early and keep it low and slow.

James, dunno maybe you were doing okay in the first place.
 
One more ? So with the stove top you just can't turn it on and go and shave? You have to watch it. With the free standing you can heat it up and just 'pull' one when you want?
 
antdad said:
James, dunno maybe you were doing okay in the first place.
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Maybe lol!

I think if you don't tamp the coffee it tastes stronger, as such I put less coffee into today and just shook it level and it was very nice I must say. we also have the same coffee (Taylors, Lazy Sunday medium strength) - predominantly because I don;t do the shopping ...

Tempted to try some other brands, maybe stronger strength if I can sneak them onto the shopping list.
 
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