Why are 2 bands so expensive?

So, the reason a Simpsons 2B costs that kinda money is just because it has the Simpsons name? People rave about the Simpsons 2B and seem happy to pay the money though [emoji53]Has anyone tried a NF brush against a Simpsons or Shavemac 2B? And is there any noticeable difference? I work in the car trade and one of the reasons some cars cost more is materials, like carbon ceramic discs for example. These shaving brushes have just lathe turned plastic handles with different grades of badger hair. I still cannot see the justification...however, with anything nice, I would still like to try one [emoji12]
 
AKH8039,

Without going too deep into the argument of you get what you pay for.

There is a reason there are two 'value' supermarkets that are doing very well at the moment. You get the standard you do at other super markets without paying a premium or trying to be conned in to buying two for one etc etc.

Please do not take this as a comment on to any specific product.

I have bought very expensive brushes that loose a lot of hairs regurlarly/and some do not. I have also bought very cheap brushes from well known outfits that do not and in the middle some do, some do not. Making sense, I thought not.

I think you want a good brush that does not shed? Brushes can/will shed from whoever/wherever you buy them from. Each brush is different with each they make. Welcome to the journey of personal experience.

Does a cheap brush have the not glued in deeper/more securely than an expensive brush? I do not know, I'll let our esteemed members advise.
 
AKH8039 said:
Anyway, back to the main point, My NF brush is great value at around the £40 mark, so why oh why can Simpsons justify a price range from over £100 to over £200 for their 2 band brushes??? It just seems a complete rip off! I did look at Shavemac too but they are also over £100.

Please post any justifications/comments ;)
Click to expand...

Err...don't take this the wrong way as it's meant to be helpful advice for yourself and others. If my memory serves me correctly you've already bought three low to middle ranking value brushes...an EJ, a Simpson Colonial and an NF...all of which you're not quite happy with. That's well over a hundred quid which imo would have been better served either by commissioning or buying a premium brush recommended in your other thread, there's your justification.
 
Thanks guys. Very good supermarket analogy. My gripe was about the big price difference but only had brush shedding problems with the blue beards corsair, majorly. Antdad, so true, I could of bought one by now [emoji6]. I think I just need to do a bit more buying and selling on my journey of finding the best shave brush for me. Plus all the advice you get on these forums. The NF 2205 though is doing a great job so far. I better Start looking for a deal on my next 2B then and do a bit more buying and selling..lol
 
Al H said:
the name
overheads
the quality of the workmanship
rip off britain (insert country)
the custome service afterwards

any of the above

simpson knots are i believe hand knotted by the company that costs money and brushmakers like neep, and shavemac make more individual handles which cost

that said i have 4 brushes, two i believe to be tgn knots and two a bit pricier, i can notice the quality in the two pricier ones but my two tgn knots perform just as well
Click to expand...

Some simple facts:

1.
2 band knots became popular only relatively recently. They became popular particularly with those who prefer face lathering, and there were a lot of posts on the forums extolling the virtues of a 2 band knot. Some people considered it to be "hype" at the time.

2.
The reason that those face latherers liked the 2 band (Manhurian) is that they preferred a stiffer backbone. And yes, for the same loft, they do have a stiffer backbone.

3.
The reason for the stiffer backbone is that the individual hairs are about 1.5 times the thickness of an equivalent silvertip hair. The badgers that the hair comes from live in a colder climate and with more rain.

4.
The end result of the forum messages making 2 band sound exotic, desirable and rare led to a situation where *some* brush manufacturers considered that they could charge more for a brush made with 2 Band hair (which incidentially *is* the same as Manchurian.)

5.
99.5% of all badger hair for shaving brushes comes from China.
It is possible to buy it as bundles of hair, or ready pre-set into a resin base plug,

6.
The hair and knot suppliers in China sometimes call it "Manchurian" and sometimes call it "2 band". Sometimes they use both descriptions. It is the same hair.

7.
There may be slight variations in hair quality from the same manufacturer/supplier in China in different batches. (That happens with Silvertip too). Some suppliers make better knots than others.

8.
Here's the interesting point:
The price of 2 Band knots (or loose hair) from the suppliers in China is actually *less* than the price of good quality silvertip. For the same size knot from the same manufacturer the 2 band costs £1.75 cheaper than the silvertip. (As of prices this year. Yes, I buy both).

h01-800.jpg


It is my personal opinion that there is no good reason why brushes with 2 Band badger should be more expensive than with decent good quality Silvertip Badger, given the same handle shape.

Rod
 
Neep said:
Al H said:
the name
overheads
the quality of the workmanship
rip off britain (insert country)
the custome service afterwards

any of the above

simpson knots are i believe hand knotted by the company that costs money and brushmakers like neep, and shavemac make more individual handles which cost

that said i have 4 brushes, two i believe to be tgn knots and two a bit pricier, i can notice the quality in the two pricier ones but my two tgn knots perform just as well
Click to expand...

Some simple facts:

1.
2 band knots became popular only relatively recently. They became popular particularly with those who prefer face lathering, and there were a lot of posts on the forums extolling the virtues of a 2 band knot. Some people considered it to be "hype" at the time.

2.
The reason that those face latherers liked the 2 band (Manhurian) is that they preferred a stiffer backbone. And yes, for the same loft, they do have a stiffer backbone.

3.
The reason for the stiffer backbone is that the individual hairs are about 1.5 times the thickness of an equivalent silvertip hair. The badgers that the hair comes from live in a colder climate and with more rain.

4.
The end result of the forum messages making 2 band sound exotic, desirable and rare led to a situation where *some* brush manufacturers considered that they could charge more for a brush made with 2 Band hair (which incidentially *is* the same as Manchurian.)

5.
99.5% of all badger hair for shaving brushes comes from China.
It is possible to buy it as bundles of hair, or ready pre-set into a resin base plug,

6.
The hair and knot suppliers in China sometimes call it "Manchurian" and sometimes call it "2 band". Sometimes they use both descriptions. It is the same hair.

7.
There may be slight variations in hair quality from the same manufacturer/supplier in China in different batches. (That happens with Silvertip too). Some suppliers make better knots than others.

8.
Here's the interesting point:
The price of 2 Band knots (or loose hair) from the suppliers in China is actually *less* than the price of good quality silvertip. For the same size knot from the same manufacturer the 2 band costs £1.75 cheaper than the silvertip. (As of prices this year. Yes, I buy both).

It is my personal opinion that there is no good reason why brushes with 2 Band badger should be more expensive than with decent good quality Silvertip Badger, given the same handle shape.

Rod
Click to expand...

Rod, thank you for that excellent analysis.

Now in my opinion they perform batter than most Silvertips in overall use (for me) but all in all they should not be more expensive than Silvertips.
 
Rod - only just read your response. Excellent explanation, I found it really interesting. So, not to sound too dumb, do you make the brushes? I've not really heard of Neep(?)
 
AKH8039 said:
Rod - only just read your response. Excellent explanation, I found it really interesting. So, not to sound too dumb, do you make the brushes? I've not really heard of Neep(?)
Click to expand...

Just a few. :blush: See my signature below.
 
AKH8039 said:
Rod - only just read your response. Excellent explanation, I found it really interesting. So, not to sound too dumb, do you make the brushes? I've not really heard of Neep(?)
Click to expand...

well Carlsberg don't make shaving brushes, but if they did........ they could only hope to emulate Rod Neeps ones! :icon_cheesygrin:
 
"My NF brush is great value at around the £40 mark, so why oh why can Simpsons justify a price range from over £100 to over £200 for their 2 band brushes???"

This was at the core of the original post.

New Forest Brushes is a tiny internet based business run by a shaving brush enthusiast who retired long ago.The whole operation is a micro business with very low costs reflecting a core value of simplicity in all things. It focuses only on high end badger shaving brushes that normally sell at high prices. Prices were set to attract buyers who cannot afford or are not prepared to pay premium prices. It is a small business made possible by the age of the internet. It gives a fair return for the effort involved. That's why our prices are so low. Our Finest Silvertip and same size two bands are the same price.

What other brands charge reflects a wide variety of factors many of which have beeen highlighted already.
 
Small is beautiful Peter.
And small is flexible.

I share your thoughts entirely.
I am retired too.... 70 years old. And I love it when people ask "What do you do?"
I smile gently and reply... "I play" :icon_razz:

Rod
 
Thanks for the comments Fido and Neep. If I get to retirement age, I wanna be doing what you guys do. Loving the 2205 Fido too [emoji6]
 
To be fair when Simpson sold their 2 band Super alongside their 3 band Super it was the same price and before that if you received a two band brush it was more of a happy accident. Modern day Manchurian (according to Simpson) is different grade altogether and tbh it looks it as when it was made at Nimmer Mill I believe the hair was a more sorted version of their 2 band Super. The last time Simpson weren't selling 2 band or custom brushes was down to a hair shortage which is either a huge oversight, a strategic decision or they can't source the quantity at the right quality so you can make your own mind up about that. Not forgetting the likes of Simpson & Shavemac hand tie their knots and in some cases further sort the hair whereas our esteemed makers purchase machine made knots off the shelf, that extra processing of course costs a little extra.
 
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