- Messages
- 16,417
- Location
- Halifax, Republic of Yorkshire
I'm sure Carl won't mind, but I'm pulling a quote of his from the "Do shaving soaps go bad?" thread.
I'm starting to rethink this ...
I have absolutely no proof whatsoever in either direction, but here's my take and it goes back to Paterson Zochonis in Sierra Leone during the 1880s. Palm Oil was the thing. Palm, palm and more palm. Paterson Zochonis are more commonly known today as the PZ part of PZ Cussons. We both have Cussons soaps and precursors like Gerard of Nottingham ... and I am going to be bold enough to say that I think they're palmate, not tallowate. I think the same of Culmak to be absolutely frank, certainly the soaps I have that I know are from the 1960s but perhaps not the ones from the 1970s and 1980s. Boots, likewise, with their earlier ones (and, of course much newer ones) being palmate - I'm thinking Regesan or Albany, which I believe are from the 1950s and 1960s.
The big soap producers had roots in palm oil extract - I'm thinking PZ, Cussons, Palmolive, et al.
I'm basing this entirely on face-feel during the shave and the kind of residual slip present after a couple of passes. Tallowate (first) has a very specific, almost greasy residual slip and palmate (first) soaps do tend to be a lot more drying.
We are, of course, guessing on the age of our soaps as well but I think the ones that I know are 1940s, 1950s and (some) 1960s are palmate based and it's into the 1970s and 1980s that tallowate gains its popularity. By the time ingredients are put onto soaps, in the first instances that might just say "Soap Base" but once expanded, we absolutely know that the British names were tallowate first and we can see that in popular soaps from the US as well - say, Colgate and Williams; whether these were palmate based in older incarnations is absolutely unknown and we just guess that tallowate was the thing prior to its rise in evidenced popularity from the 1990s.
As a soap archeologist I can only go as far back as ingredient lists will permit and also as far back as forums have existed where I can find words and pictures with a confirmed date. I can see that there was a seismic shift from tallowate to palmate during the 2000s but I have very little to go on prior to that ... scant information back into the 1990s and as I said, it's "Soap Base" or nothing prior to that.
... and personal impressions when using the soap, which I will stick my neck out here and say that 1980s, probably 1970s and perhaps some 1960s were tallowate; 1960s, 1950s and older perform far more like (modern) palmate.
Discuss.
I'm starting to rethink this ...
I have absolutely no proof whatsoever in either direction, but here's my take and it goes back to Paterson Zochonis in Sierra Leone during the 1880s. Palm Oil was the thing. Palm, palm and more palm. Paterson Zochonis are more commonly known today as the PZ part of PZ Cussons. We both have Cussons soaps and precursors like Gerard of Nottingham ... and I am going to be bold enough to say that I think they're palmate, not tallowate. I think the same of Culmak to be absolutely frank, certainly the soaps I have that I know are from the 1960s but perhaps not the ones from the 1970s and 1980s. Boots, likewise, with their earlier ones (and, of course much newer ones) being palmate - I'm thinking Regesan or Albany, which I believe are from the 1950s and 1960s.
The big soap producers had roots in palm oil extract - I'm thinking PZ, Cussons, Palmolive, et al.
I'm basing this entirely on face-feel during the shave and the kind of residual slip present after a couple of passes. Tallowate (first) has a very specific, almost greasy residual slip and palmate (first) soaps do tend to be a lot more drying.
We are, of course, guessing on the age of our soaps as well but I think the ones that I know are 1940s, 1950s and (some) 1960s are palmate based and it's into the 1970s and 1980s that tallowate gains its popularity. By the time ingredients are put onto soaps, in the first instances that might just say "Soap Base" but once expanded, we absolutely know that the British names were tallowate first and we can see that in popular soaps from the US as well - say, Colgate and Williams; whether these were palmate based in older incarnations is absolutely unknown and we just guess that tallowate was the thing prior to its rise in evidenced popularity from the 1990s.
As a soap archeologist I can only go as far back as ingredient lists will permit and also as far back as forums have existed where I can find words and pictures with a confirmed date. I can see that there was a seismic shift from tallowate to palmate during the 2000s but I have very little to go on prior to that ... scant information back into the 1990s and as I said, it's "Soap Base" or nothing prior to that.
... and personal impressions when using the soap, which I will stick my neck out here and say that 1980s, probably 1970s and perhaps some 1960s were tallowate; 1960s, 1950s and older perform far more like (modern) palmate.
Discuss.
