BST Discussion

I think the deliberate introduction of stricter application of rules is bound to produce a certain sense of being 'stifled' but it is being done for good reasons. If a comment such as 'This is not good value' is to be removed, as it should be, then why should 'This is a bargain' be any different? They are both comments on value for money. Additionally, we are, in effect in out host's 'house' when we post here and should respect the relatively few rules which have been set up simply because we are guests.

The BST is not the place for 'mini-reviews' on sales items and we have a large number of places where very open and virtually unmoderated discussion can and does take place.

If anyone wants to assist with additional information about a sale then why not PM the OP or put a little review in the 'Reviews' section to which the OP is welcome to refer? This keeps BST clean and simple and prevents BST threads becoming general discussion to the detriment of Seller and Buyers alike.

I would not encourage a 'poll' on this subject as it will not, in itself, change anything. Open discussion, such as this, is useful however.

We want to keep BST simple and minimalist and take discussion, reviews etc to where they best belong.

I think we would all agree that a Sales post should involve the buyer and the seller (master of the obvious!). The question is how much it should involve others. The only other valid input I can see is a potential buyer seeking extra information or clarification while considering a purchase. That information should come from the seller.

Edit - Although I agree that, in an ideal world, everyone would receive a pm with details about why a post was removed, the amount of work involved is excessive for part time volunteers. Hence the rule having the 'without notice' rider.

I have no intention of adding a poll and think it's pretty near impossible from tapatalk anyway.

I do feel thought that if something is overpriced by a lot and someone posts that is also in the spirit of this community to safeguard members that may not be knowledgeable on the going rate. I've seen a few things lately posted above the price they can be bought direct from the maker and would not like to see someone paying over the odds. If that wasn't a fair comment I'm sure others would interject.

Personally I've usually pm'd the seller.
 
I paid a seller in one of the BST threads, then realized I hadn't also covered the PayPal fees as requested in the OP. I made a comment in the thread that I had also sent another payment via the friends and family PayPal option to cover the fees.

That post was deleted by a mod.

I think that was short sighted and heavy handed on the mod's part. It makes me feel like I can't discuss anything with the seller without having to revert to PM's, even innocuous comments that are relevant to the sale.
 
I have no intention of adding a poll and think it's pretty near impossible from tapatalk anyway.

I do feel thought that if something is overpriced by a lot and someone posts that is also in the spirit of this community to safeguard members that may not be knowledgeable on the going rate. I've seen a few things lately posted above the price they can be bought direct from the maker and would not like to see someone paying over the odds. If that wasn't a fair comment I'm sure others would interject.

Personally I've usually pm'd the seller.
I was a seller affected by someone posting this way though, the item WAS cheaper than new, there was quite a fallout over it and it may of been a contributory factor in the current moderation style.
So i can see where the mods are coming from however I totally agree a bit of common sense is needed
 
I sold an item through bst recently, and was unsure how to price it. I mentioned this in the advert and someone was kind enough to tell me my price was ok. That was very useful!


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While I agree that posts that only consist of comments such as "Great guy, buy with confidence" or "GLWTS" or "I tried (product-x) and it's crap" should not be posted since they clutter up the threads; however actively deleting posts or comments that are focused on the product being sold and are answers to questions being asked about the OP item is wrong and a result of over-moderation and/or censorship.
Informational discussion ABOUT the item being sold (minus good/bad opinions) should be actively ENCOURAGED in the BST.
Discussions that include personal opinions should be discouraged, but not censored unless the thread becomes derailed.
 
Regarding price, one option is to list the seller's cost or new retail. I understand vintage, wait list, etc. increase the complexity.

As a new member, I really liked the lack of BST posts. I just counted 6 on the first 2 pages of new posts. I recall counting one U.S. shave forum and closer to 35-40% of the new posts were BST. Hopefully the BST is a "give a fellow TSR member a good deal" and not eBay Junior.
 
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Regarding price, one option is to list the seller's cost or new retail. I understand vintage, wait list, etc. increase the complexity.

As a new member, I really liked the lack of BST posts. I just counted 6 on the first 2 pages of new posts. I recall counting one U.S. shave forum and closer to 35-40% of the new posts were BST. Hopefully the BST is a "give a fellow TSR member a good deal" and not eBay Junior.
They have to do this on TSN, personally i feel this isn't the way to go
 
All these comments are being read and taken into account. They are very useful.

On a number of general points, details of payment and finalising transactions should be by PM. How one pays, when and how much, is essentially a private matter. It is no more difficult to write a PM than to write a post. Distinguishing between a 'necessary' and 'unnecessary' comment is a value judgement and moderation based on such will be, overall, less fair than rule-based moderation. Nothing is going to change regarding telling a seller publicly that their price is wrong. This is simply going to cause ill-feeling and usually results in unpleasantness. I would certainly ask that anyone who has issues with the price of an item restrict themselves to PM communication with the seller even when the seller has expressed uncertainty about the price.

Thanks for all the input. It is much appreciated.
 
Regarding price, one option is to list the seller's cost or new retail. I understand vintage, wait list, etc. increase the complexity.

As a new member, I really liked the lack of BST posts. I just counted 6 on the first 2 pages of new posts. I recall counting one U.S. shave forum and closer to 35-40% of the new posts were BST. Hopefully the BST is a "give a fellow TSR member a good deal" and not eBay Junior.
It wasn't The Shave Den. :) Most of the people there are more interested in acquiring stuff than selling stuff. The hardware sold is usually vintage user grade or modern Merkur/Edwin Jagger/Muhle. Their BST posts are limited to one post and locked to replies. High end stuff usually gets sold via PM's, behind the scenes, between collectors.

Here it's a nice mix of stuff. High and low end. For the most part the BST works well here, and I think it would even without as much oversight as it's getting right now.

Obviously, I don't see or notice all the posts that get removed, only mine, some to my annoyance, but it's better than not having the ability to reply at all.
 
I just feel that if a moderator is taking the time to look in the first place at the content of posts on a bst thread then it takes as much time to judge and allow a helpful and sensible comment as it does to hamfistedly delete all comments that don't fall into this currently over officious criteria despite the obviously harmless and helpful nature of the response in my original bst post. I completely agree with posts being removed if they are rude, insulting or go completely off at a tangent but part of the fun of using forums like this should also be in conversing with like minded people and I just feel we are in the grip of stifling over moderation that is beginning to ruin my experience on TSR.

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...I just feel we are in the grip of stifling over moderation that is beginning to ruin my experience on TSR...
managing-abusive-online-community-members-or-the-mean-things-people-say-to-moderators-1-638.jpg

Lol.
 
Would you guys actually like to have a week of "stifling over-moderation" to see what it looks like? It can be quickly arranged for you...

No, thought not. I don't want that either.

Personally I prefer a quiet life as a moderator too - which is why we have historically been very much laissez-faire - but with the corollary that the members adhered to the spirit of the rules if not the letter of them (and the rules themselves are few and not onerous) by self-control. If that self-control is lost, then the obvious consequence is that moderation must become more active.

The guideline "Don't post on a thread unless you are involved in a transaction or are requesting further information" has been there, unaltered since May 2013 - which is considerably longer than many contributors to this particular thread have been registered as members. The only thing that has changed is that it is being more rigorously applied than in the past.

We as moderators have to tread a thin indistinct grey line here - as @globalm has eluded - recent quibbles over the practice of posting on other people's BST threads have lead to at least one long-term member (he was the original poster of the thread, not the one making the comment about the price/efficacy of the product being sold) requesting his account be closed due to the response his BST post elicited from a considerably newer member. That isn't the way to grow or retain members then.

I make no value judgement on who was right, I have enough to fill my life without attempting to resolve circular "x said, y said" petty arguments.

At the same time counter to that, we now have people complaining that they're prevented from contributing. So that isn't the way to grow or retain members either then.

Perhaps we don't always get it right in what (and indeed who) we allow and what we remove - but for everyone's collective sanity - "Don't post on a [BST] thread unless you are involved in a transaction or are requesting further information" - if the seller doesn't know the answer, he can request assistance from the hive mind of TSR - if another member knows by all means send the person asking for more information a private message/conversation.

What we absolutely will not entertain are messages in BST praising the low price, carping about the high price, wishes of good luck (or bad) to the poster or any other petty agendas that one member may have (or perceive he has) with another.

Incidentally, registered & active membership continues to grow month on month, posting volume continues to grow (which is actually unusual for this time of year compared to the previous six - typically as spring arrives, posting volume tends to drop). Page impressions continue to grow (again unusual for spring - usually it starts to drop until the nights start to draw in again).
 
"Don't post on a [BST] thread unless you are involved in a transaction or are requesting further information"
...and yet my post informing the seller that I was sending extra money to cover PayPal fees (as was requested in the original post of that BST thread) was deleted.
*scratches head*
Edit: granted, some other posts I made in that thread were also deleted, so it might have just been randomly caught up in the clean up?
 
...and yet my post informing the seller that I was sending extra money to cover PayPal fees (as was requested in the original post of that BST thread) was deleted.
*scratches head*
Edit: granted, some other posts I made in that thread were also deleted, so it might have just been randomly caught up in the clean up?

As I said...

Perhaps we don't always get it right in what (and indeed who) we allow and what we remove

We are only human.
 
Oh well it was nice to have been given the impression that members of the forum could shape how they would like it to be used if just for 12 hours or so. I don't feel the suggestions given by members regardless of how long they have been a member have been taken as seriously as they should have. I also don't feel the original complaint has been seperated from the long standing reasons why posts are deleted on bst posts ( rude, abusive comments etc ) as it was completely different in context. There now also seems to be an underlying assumption that length of membership is in some way linked to how seriously a suggestion or complaint should be dealt with. More of the same then , eh!

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