6 Nations 2013

[chrisbell]

Let's see if I can correctly predict the outcome of at least one match this time...:icon_rolleyes::blush:

I expect Wales to beat Italy, but not by much. It all depends on whether Italy's last game was an aberration. or whether they've reverted to type.

I'd like to think that we can edge-out the French, but it wouldn't surprise me if they get us - surely France must put in a better performance this time?:huh::s

As for the third match - it could be closer than you might assume. I'm going for a narrow Irish win, but Scotland could edge it. Depends on how many Irish players are injured.

Well chris, as far as predictions go you seem to have chosen Wales as winners but are on the fence regarding the rest.

Sort of - I'm predicting Wales, England and Ireland to win, but with much less confidence on the second and third matches than the first. I'm clear of the fence on the Wales match, and, for the other two, I'm not on it, but I'm leaning against it.:icon_razz:

 

[deco]

Hard to see France turning up in Twickenham. England to win.

Wales will look to beat Italy by a large score to keep their Championship hopes alive. Wales to win.

Ireland are in disarray and whilst they might win (I really don't rate Scotland), I wouldn't be surprised (or upset) if a passionate Scotland put us out of our misery. Scotland to win.

I might change my predictions when the teams are announced, but probably not.

 

[deco]

Well, the big surprise from the Irish camp today is that O'Gara has been dropped. With Sexton injured, it was expected that the old codger would get his old teacher and friends nod, but Kidney has grown a pair and picked young Paddy Jackson (Ulster) to start. O'Gara will probably get a run off the bench. It probably won't change the outcome of the game, I still expect Scotland to win.

 

[Lose the beard]

Its all lining up to be a cracker of a match between England and Wales on the 16th of March.
I'm really hoping England can win and take the Grand Slam too.

 

[Fido]

The Law 20.6 d states that "the scrum half must throw in the ball straight along the middle line, so that it first touches the ground immediately beyond the width of the nearer prop's shoulders. Penalty: Free Kick."

Why isn't this rule enforced?

 

[pugh-the-special-one]

The scrum is without doubt the most difficult area for any referee to officiate, and even seasoned rugby pro's have a very hard time to give a logical answer when asked about front row play, only on the odd occasion do you see the ref call a ball being put in not straight, and I can see why they have probably been given a directive saying as long as the scrum as been set the advantage usually goes with the attacking scrum, so please referee don't slow the game up keep the tempo going.

Jamie

 

[antdad]

It's very difficult for the ref ascertain when a ball is getting "fed" or a pack has the advantage because the hooker doesn't really hook the ball anymore, to do so would be to sacrifice his scrummaging where the initial gain/shove is paramount.

 

[Fido]

The problem is, we can see on TV quite clearly when the rule is infringed. With good communication the ref could be told through his microphone and then warn the offenders that constant repetition would lead to enforcement of the rule.

 

[chrisbell]

It's very difficult for the ref ascertain when a ball is getting "fed" or a pack has the advantage because the hooker doesn't really hook the ball anymore, to do so would be to sacrifice his scrummaging where the initial gain/shove is paramount.

I think, based on Brian Moore's comments over the course of the past couple of years, that the reason that the hooker doesn't hook the ball nowadays is because it's fed in at such an angle. Anyway, don't the laws of the game also state that the ball may not be fed into the scrum until the scrum is steady?

 

[Dr Rick]

The trouble is, the initial "hit" and instant drive (which is against the rules, as I understand them; you're still not supposed to drive until the ball's in) has become endemic to the extent that you will see teams penalised internationally fit "not taking the hit", an offence not in any rule book, and has driven all other considerations out of this phase of the game.

Rugby has rarely been a game in which rules were enforced as written; games under two different refs can be wildly different, and he is supposed to make clear to the teams what he wants. It's mental, but it's the tradition of the game.

 

[chrisbell]

The trouble is, the initial "hit" and instant drive (which is against the rules, as I understand them; you're still not supposed to drive until the ball's in) has become endemic to the extent that you will see teams penalised internationally fit "not taking the hit", an offence not in any rule book, and has driven all other considerations out of this phase of the game.

Rugby has rarely been a game in which rules were enforced as written; games under two different refs can be wildly different, and he is supposed to make clear to the teams what he wants. It's mental, but it's the tradition of the game.

Fair point Rick - you obviously know the rules much better than I! My argument was that Moore, as an ex-player (and qualified referee) should know the rules of the game, and he's always moaning about the feed not being straight, or the loose-head not binding properly.

 

[Dr Rick]

And he's right. The trouble is that the reffing culture at the moment is that those rules aren't enforced. Some of the rules NEED to not be enforced strictly; if, for example, the rules about releasing the ball when tackled were enforced strictly tackles would be turnovers probably every third time. As it is, the tackled player is normally given rather more time to play the ball on the ground than I would like; but some middle ground is needed, and that can only be left to referees (with guidance from the boards).

In the end, it's always going to be a compromise, and old farts like Brian and I are always going to instinctively yearn for rules more like those we played under ourselves (with exceptions, of course: I love the modern lineout). But I think the northern-hemisphere consensus is that the scrum is currently badly, absurdly broken, and there must surely be changes coming.

 

[chrisbell]

And he's right. The trouble is that the reffing culture at the moment is that those rules aren't enforced. Some of the rules NEED to not be enforced strictly; if, for example, the rules about releasing the ball when tackled were enforced strictly tackles would be turnovers probably every third time. As it is, the tackled player is normally given rather more time to play the ball on the ground than I would like; but some middle ground is needed, and that can only be left to referees (with guidance from the boards).

In the end, it's always going to be a compromise, and old farts like Brian and I are always going to instinctively yearn for rules more like those we played under ourselves (with exceptions, of course: I love the modern lineout). But I think the northern-hemisphere consensus is that the scrum is currently badly, absurdly broken, and there must surely be changes coming.

Interestingly, I do think the change to the referee's commands as the scrum is set has resulted in fewer scrums going down and needing to be re-set. It seemed to me that, with the "crouch, touch, pause, engage" sequence, referees were subconsciously doing what the hosts of those odious talent and dancing programmes do when the winner is announced - they drag it out. I found myself watching last seasons Six Nations and moaning at the refs for waiting too long on the "pause" command.

 

[chrisbell]

Let's see if I can correctly predict the outcome of at least one match this time...:icon_rolleyes::blush:

I expect Wales to beat Italy, but not by much. It all depends on whether Italy's last game was an aberration. or whether they've reverted to type.

I'd like to think that we can edge-out the French, but it wouldn't surprise me if they get us - surely France must put in a better performance this time?:huh::s

As for the third match - it could be closer than you might assume. I'm going for a narrow Irish win, but Scotland could edge it. Depends on how many Irish players are injured.

2 out of 3; a damn sight better than two weeks ago! Mind you, the Irish team needs to understand how they managed to lose that game.

 

[antdad]

It's very difficult for the ref ascertain when a ball is getting "fed" or a pack has the advantage because the hooker doesn't really hook the ball anymore, to do so would be to sacrifice his scrummaging where the initial gain/shove is paramount.

I think, based on Brian Moore's comments over the course of the past couple of years, that the reason that the hooker doesn't hook the ball nowadays is because it's fed in at such an angle. Anyway, don't the laws of the game also state that the ball may not be fed into the scrum until the scrum is steady?

I'd thought it was more to do with the scrum not being stationary but as Rick says the laws are arbitrarily enforced. Also large blokes in tight shirts do not make for good binding, back to the loose fitting tents so you can at least get a good grip to garrotte your opponent.

 

[pugh-the-special-one]

A good solid performance from Wales, I've never seen an Italian scrum so comprehensively destroyed by any team, our under twenties are looking good and the grand slam is still on, I'm tipping Wales to beat Scotland and then there's the small matter of England. :icon_biggrin: I expect a few changes in the forwards before we play England, I wouldn't like to call that game they are two good teams but I would say on paper Wales are the best team, I'm just so annoyed we played so poorly against Ireland but we do seem to be getting back to where we were 12 months ago.

Jamie.