6 Nations 2013

I suppose the England v Italy match will be wonderful, unless of course Italy cause an upset. Then the England v Wales match will also be wonderful unless of course Wales win. Forsooth, one doesn't need to be a soothsayer to predict that. For anyone other than an Englishman, it is simple to pinpoint the root of many of England's problems - arrogance and a lofty opinion of themselves. Seems to affect a small minority but tarnishes the rest. And me with English roots on one side of the family.
 
As a willing English immigrant to Kim Jong Eck's Tartan Utopia and a regular visitor to Wales who has also lived in Ireland (and me of Scots/Irish/Canadian/Belgian/English heritage) I bring you the startling news that the arrogance and shoulder chip is not exclusively an English affliction... Mind you the other variants don't get the exposure because the meejah is English-centric.
 
Gairdner said:
Got it in one - the meejah!
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I reckon that's spot-on, Graeme. As a Sassenach (albeit with some Irish blood and possibly some south-western Scots blood), I'm not really aware of us being any more arrogant generally than anyone else. Perhaps in rugby any arrogance can be explained due to the fact that, for a time, we happened to be the only home nation capable to taking the fight to the southern hemisphere on anything like a reliable basis. As events in the last World Cup demonstrated, that is no longer the case, and, with Welsh rugby regaining its confidence, the Scots learning from their defeat, and new Irish talent emerging, all the home nations will, with a bit of luck, be capable of giving the SH teams a hard match.
 
Have you been watching 6 Nations, Chris? Please enlighten me - what on earth have you seen to suggest the NH has anything at all with which to challenge the SH?

But then, you can't see the arrogance of the English, can you?
 
That was tough. Well done England. And don't draw any conclusions from it Welsh fans. We all know how form can fluctuate and how luck can play its hand.

Just switched over to the Man U and Chelsea game.

How tame it seems compared with the sustained intensity of the rugby.
 
Fido said:
That was tough. Well done England. And don't draw any conclusions from it Welsh fans. We all know how form can fluctuate and how luck can play its hand.

Just switched over to the Man U and Chelsea game.

How tame it seems compared with the sustained intensity of the rugby.
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That wasn't tense at all......

I've done the same, I have little interest in football but it's Sunday, and theres naff all else on! I agree there though on how tame it is, I was on edge all through the second half!
 
Bechet45 said:
Have you been watching 6 Nations, Chris? Please enlighten me - what on earth have you seen to suggest the NH has anything at all with which to challenge the SH?

But then, you can't see the arrogance of the English, can you?
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Carl, I don't accept that the population of the nation known as "England" are empirically more arrogant, or prone to arrogance, than the population of the nation known as "Scotland", or the Nation known as "Wales". I did, however, say:

Perhaps in rugby any arrogance can be explained due to the fact that, for a time, we happened to be the only home nation capable to taking the fight to the southern hemisphere on anything like a reliable basis.
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by which I meant that I wasn't confident enough in the humility of some England rugby fans and commenters (coughLawrenceDallagliocough) to extend my comment to them.:s

I base my opinions on NH vs. SH on the fact that an on-form England won an autumn international against the All Blacks, and that France were pretty decent as well, in addition to the events of the last World Cup. Of course, France are a pale shadow of what they were last autumn, and, on todays' performance, England would be decimated by Australia, New Zealand or SA, but I'm taking the last few years as a whole rather than cherry-picking.

In fact, before I read your stinging criticism of my previous post, I came to this thread to congratulate Jamie on Wales's Championship win, as I expect Wales to beat England by more than the necessary 8 points next weekend.

England were woeful today - despite having much of the first half possession, they were attacking so laterally and, with the back row failing to carry ball around the ruck to pull Italian defenders in, the spaces weren't there for the backs to run into. In addition, they were attacking singly so there was little chance of offloading and, at times, the support when the ball carrier went to ground seemed slow and dithering.

Of course, that was the better half of play for England(!), who lost their way entirely in the second half. Falling off tackles, leaving gaps, bad-quality kicking...plus, I cannot recall seeing a game with such wildly fluctuating fortunes in the scrum - one minute England had the Italian pack on the ropes, the next, Italy were splintering the England pack. A few minutes later, and England were back on top then it seemed to swing yet again.:huh:
 
I wouldn't say Wales beating England is a done deal Chris, because England can certainly raise their game, but i believe Wales can also play far better than they have been, I'm definitely looking for Wales to have the upper hand in the forwards, and if we play as we did in the second half against Ireland i think we can win by more than 8 points, but I wouldn't bet on it, where I think we will win the game is at the breakdown as we have a very good backrow and in the scrum I think that will put our backrow on the front foot giving our backs time and space to score points.

Jamie
 
pugh-the-special-one said:
I wouldn't say Wales beating England is a done deal Chris, because England can certainly raise their game, but i believe Wales can also play far better than they have been, I'm definitely looking for Wales to have the upper hand in the forwards, and if we play as we did in the second half against Ireland i think we can win by more than 8 points, but I wouldn't bet on it, where I think we will win the game is at the breakdown as we have a very good backrow and in the scrum I think that will put our backrow on the front foot giving our backs time and space to score points.

Jamie
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Don't get wrong, Jamie, I was being slightly flippant when I offered my premature congratulations. I was also working on the basis that I might be able to put the jinx on you lot!:icon_razz:

That being said, I fully expect Wales to win, or a draw at best.:icon_sad::icon_mad:
 
Chris I think your post is spot on in terms of trying to understand England's performance today. After 5 minutes England had points on the boards, had murdered the Italian scrum at the first attempt and were mving the ball with pace and precision to such an extent that a big margin win looked on the cards.

My comment at full time was along the lines of - if I was the England coach, I would not know what to change to right whatever went wrong today. Apart from making a couple of changes to the wings, I could not argue that the team selection was wrong, so what did go wrong?.

Let's open the debate and get some useful posts instead of talking about English arrogance, because I for one am mightily fed up with the way the last few posts have gone. If anyone can quote an example of when, how or why any of the England team or management have been arrogantt then please prove me wrong. If not then concentrate on the competition or keep your prejudiced opinions to yourself.
 
As an utterly prejudiced England supporter, I found myself cheering Italy on a lot of the time. My biggest fear is that when the Tigers players return from England duty they will continue to try to play in the style of this appalling Six Nations squad. I gave up counting the opportunities England completely missed in the first half and then watched with dismay as they had to work so hard to keep Italy out in the second. Still, in the land of the blind, the one eyed is.......

As a personal opinion, based on having sailed for many years with non-English born and bred Brits and quoting them with a fair degree of accuracy, the most arrogant thing about the English is that they don't get that they are.
 
Although the title of the thread does not specifically state that it's about Rugby, I thought it was pretty obvious that we are talking about the teams' as opposed to national characteristics.

I'm still waiting for someone to point out where the England team or management have said or done something that is arrogant. On the contrary, every interview I've read by either players or coaches has gone out of the way to understate England's achievements and concentrate on the next opponents.

In my previous post I said that I didn't have a clue as to what went wrong yesterday, so maybe the more enlightened of you will try and explain this to me instead of falling back on lazy, generalised and inaccurate stereotypes.
 
From what I saw on Sunday Toby Flood falls a bit short at international level. Fine when he has time to kick and control the game but not the outright pace, footwork or necessary quick handling to make a significant impact against flat fast organised defences. On too many occasions he took too many forward steps with ball in hand, this meant he either had to rely on the long missed pass because the defense was up (difficult and dangerous to execute especially at full pelt) or just decided to take the ball into the tackle as a safe option.
 
antdad said:
From what I saw on Sunday Toby Flood falls a bit short at international level. Fine when he has time to kick and control the game but not the outright pace, footwork or necessary quick handling to make a significant impact against flat fast organised defences. On too many occasions he took too many forward steps with ball in hand, this meant he either had to rely on the long missed pass because the defense was up (difficult and dangerous to execute especially at full pelt) or just decided to take the ball into the tackle as a safe option.
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+1,000,000. I've never rated him - always used to moan at his selection during the Andy Robinson era when Wilkinson was injured.
 
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